Adam Tarnow – Leadership Training and Consulting

Glenn Harper:

Welcome, everybody.

Glenn Harper:

Another edition of Harper and Company Empower

Glenn Harper:

Entrepreneurs, The Harper Company.

Glenn Harper:

This is Glenn Harper,

Julie Smith:

and Julie Smith,

Glenn Harper:

And we got a special guest today.

Glenn Harper:

Calling in all the way from Dallas, Texas, Adam Tarnow,

Glenn Harper:

fellow entrepreneur who is the owner of Adam Tarnow and

Glenn Harper:

Company, a leadership training company in Texas.

Glenn Harper:

In his spare time, he's active in his church.

Glenn Harper:

And while he's helping everybody be their best, even though

Glenn Harper:

he has the stature of enough NFL lineman, he enjoys golf as

Glenn Harper:

he loves to torture himself in five hour blocks at a time

Glenn Harper:

and chasing the ball, which is always exciting.

Glenn Harper:

Thanks for being with us today.

Glenn Harper:

It's kind of funny.

Glenn Harper:

We have an affinity that, again, there's not a lot of bean

Glenn Harper:

counters out there and every time we get one on the show, I

Glenn Harper:

get all excited because, you know, we have this little, you

Glenn Harper:

know, pocket protectors, green visors and such.

Glenn Harper:

And, you know, we're always, you know, typical accountants,

Glenn Harper:

very exciting, dynamic, motivated.

Glenn Harper:

We're breaking the mold of that, I think.

Glenn Harper:

Would you agree with that?

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. Yeah. We're actually talking to each other.

Adam Tarnow:

That is definitely breaking the mold by having a

Adam Tarnow:

conversation because we want to, not because we have to.

Julie Smith:

And not with a ten key.

Julie Smith:

Right. You're not talking in ten key language.

Adam Tarnow:

There's no spreadsheets. We're not going to talk about

Adam Tarnow:

numbers today. We're going to talk about our life.

Adam Tarnow:

That's that's very abnormal for us.

Glenn Harper:

I'm telling you, a group of accounts together is is like a

Glenn Harper:

fifth grade dance. Nobody's talking to anybody.

Glenn Harper:

It's really bizarre.

Adam Tarnow:

I like that. I like.

Glenn Harper:

That.

Adam Tarnow:

So I appreciate the NFL linemen line.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, I've been called a lot of things in my life.

Adam Tarnow:

I've never been accused of being a big, burly man like

Adam Tarnow:

that.

Glenn Harper:

I checked out all your action photos and I'm like, Oh, this

Glenn Harper:

guy is definitely linemen material.

Julie Smith:

Glenn was just intimidated by your stature, actually.

Adam Tarnow:

Well, that's funny.

Glenn Harper:

I've got a couple rapid fire questions.

Glenn Harper:

I'd like to throw out some guests just to make sure we're

Glenn Harper:

on the same page on some things.

Glenn Harper:

And so is it true that you started out as a as a CPA

Glenn Harper:

because you just knew that was the greatest thing to do?

Glenn Harper:

But while you're in involved with the Enron audit, you

Glenn Harper:

decided that you had to change to become a minister because

Glenn Harper:

you knew it was such a bad thing you were looking at.

Glenn Harper:

Is that how that turned out?

Adam Tarnow:

I thought I'd buried that story pretty deep on the Internet,

Adam Tarnow:

so I'm sorry that you had to find that out.

Adam Tarnow:

No. Best class I took in high school was an accounting

Adam Tarnow:

class or my favorite.

Adam Tarnow:

My dad was an accountant, my grandfather was an accountant,

Adam Tarnow:

and my birthday is April 16th.

Glenn Harper:

That's impressive that you've got that trifecta.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, it was in the stars.

Adam Tarnow:

I had to. I had to go there.

Adam Tarnow:

I was one of my only friends that I knew in college that

Adam Tarnow:

never changed their major.

Adam Tarnow:

I showed up. Day one said, I'm going to be an accounting

Adam Tarnow:

major, and I never wavered from it at all.

Adam Tarnow:

So very, very steady with all that.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, that's funny. I just thought I wanted to be one when I

Glenn Harper:

was. I think it would have been seventh grade.

Glenn Harper:

I didn't even know what an accountant did.

Glenn Harper:

And I'm like, I just worked for this guy as his landscaper.

Glenn Harper:

And I'm like, What do you do for a living?

Glenn Harper:

He's like, Oh, I'm an accountant. I'm like, Well, I want to

Glenn Harper:

be that when I grow up. I don't even know.

Glenn Harper:

I don't think I think I got out of college when I figured

Glenn Harper:

out what an account really did, which is odd, and I

Glenn Harper:

apparently should have studied more.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, I was one year into my job.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

That's just horrible.

Adam Tarnow:

So that auditing class people actually do this, that's like

Adam Tarnow:

a real thing.

Glenn Harper:

And they like it. It's odd, but, you know, everybody needs

Glenn Harper:

everybody, right? Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Did you you know, you were did you ever get a chance to or

Glenn Harper:

the privilege to rub Howard's rock at the Clemson's Tiger

Glenn Harper:

Stadium?

Adam Tarnow:

I have yes. I do allow all freshmen to do that.

Adam Tarnow:

So if our listeners don't know, I went to Clemson

Adam Tarnow:

University and they have this rock that a legendary

Adam Tarnow:

football coach got from Death Valley.

Adam Tarnow:

Is that in Arizona? I think California.

Adam Tarnow:

California on the West Coast.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. And so he brought this rock back and it became this

Adam Tarnow:

moment. Like, if you're not going to go down there and go

Adam Tarnow:

all in today, then don't touch this rock.

Adam Tarnow:

So when you touch the rock, it's signifying to the team and

Adam Tarnow:

to the fans.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm going to give it my all today.

Adam Tarnow:

It's under lock like a bulletproof glass now, really,

Adam Tarnow:

because of the in-state rivalry with South Carolina,

Adam Tarnow:

there's been attempts to steal it and to vandalize it.

Adam Tarnow:

And so no joke. If you go drive through there right now,

Adam Tarnow:

drive through campus and you will see it is under

Adam Tarnow:

bulletproof glass.

Adam Tarnow:

They remove that glass right before the game so the players

Adam Tarnow:

can touch it right before they go down the field and then

Adam Tarnow:

boom, it goes right back on.

Adam Tarnow:

So it's one of the most protected things in the state of

Adam Tarnow:

South Carolina right now.

Glenn Harper:

That's crazy. They took away all the fun of the college

Glenn Harper:

rivalries and go and steal and all their mascots and stuff.

Glenn Harper:

They denied that.

Adam Tarnow:

Yes.

Glenn Harper:

Well, yes. Is it are you sad that you're at Clemson when the

Glenn Harper:

football team was in any good and now all of a sudden it's

Glenn Harper:

the best? I mean, crazy would do what they would do.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. I like to feel like I contributed, right.

Adam Tarnow:

Like this is they were standing on our shoulders, but I was

Adam Tarnow:

there for a lot of bad football, a lot of bad football.

Adam Tarnow:

So it just is sweeter.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, I was just literally talking about this with my

Adam Tarnow:

family the other day about how I think we our local high

Adam Tarnow:

school basketball team here in Richardson, Texas.

Adam Tarnow:

Was had a really great season, but they lost,

Adam Tarnow:

unfortunately, in the playoffs.

Adam Tarnow:

And we were driving home and I was we were all kind of sad.

Adam Tarnow:

But I looked at the boys and I was like, guys, you know,

Adam Tarnow:

with all sports, though, in the end, I've gotten to see

Adam Tarnow:

Clemson win two national championships in my lifetime and I

Adam Tarnow:

just never thought I'd be able to see that.

Adam Tarnow:

So really all the other sports teams can lose from here on

Adam Tarnow:

out.

Glenn Harper:

I feel like life's complete.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, it.

Adam Tarnow:

Was successful because I just never thought, I mean, let

Adam Tarnow:

alone watch them play in a national championship, I never

Adam Tarnow:

thought I'd see them win. And it was great.

Adam Tarnow:

I was. I'm grateful for.

Glenn Harper:

It. Yeah. What he's done for.

Adam Tarnow:

Work.

Glenn Harper:

Over there. Yeah, he was done for that program.

Glenn Harper:

An amazing just developing young men.

Glenn Harper:

It's it's a it's a really cool thing.

Glenn Harper:

Do you have, you know, as a golfer, do you play a lot?

Glenn Harper:

A little bit. I mean, what's your dream course to play?

Adam Tarnow:

That's a really good question.

Adam Tarnow:

I play not as much as I want to obviously work.

Adam Tarnow:

There's I need to put some food on the table for the family

Adam Tarnow:

so I can't play as much as I want to.

Adam Tarnow:

I probably right now in the wintertime here, maybe just get

Adam Tarnow:

out once a month.

Adam Tarnow:

I practice a lot. I've got a little set up in my backyard,

Adam Tarnow:

a net and a mat. And so I'll go hit, you know, four or five

Adam Tarnow:

days a week back there a few times.

Adam Tarnow:

But dream course right now, I think I would have to say

Adam Tarnow:

probably Pebble Beach, right?

Adam Tarnow:

I've never been out there. Something out in California I

Adam Tarnow:

think would be a lot of fun.

Glenn Harper:

Definitely on the list to do so.

Julie Smith:

Adam What you don't know is Glen's also an avid golfer and

Julie Smith:

chases all these dream golf courses as well.

Julie Smith:

So he's probably just fishing for for the next one that you

Julie Smith:

have on your list.

Glenn Harper:

Looking for the next hookup.

Glenn Harper:

You know.

Adam Tarnow:

What's your most memorable course that you've played?

Glenn Harper:

I just got back from a trip to some abandoned dunes, which

Glenn Harper:

is fantastic.

Glenn Harper:

Just surreal.

Glenn Harper:

You're right on the coast. It was it was so much fun and

Glenn Harper:

just built for golfers, so many courses.

Glenn Harper:

It's a great experience, kind of like Scotland but in the

Glenn Harper:

US of a and you know this summer I've got a trip to

Glenn Harper:

Whistling Straits and Hills and I think it's the Sand Ridge

Glenn Harper:

or Sand Castle.

Glenn Harper:

It's the same owner group abandoned dunes in Wisconsin.

Glenn Harper:

So looking forward to that.

Glenn Harper:

That should be fun.

Adam Tarnow:

That's fun. Yeah. It's a great another great way to see the

Adam Tarnow:

country, right. To go visit some of these other courses.

Adam Tarnow:

And I think when I first talked to you all, just about

Adam Tarnow:

seeing the country, my family and I've got two boys, a

Adam Tarnow:

seventh grader and fifth grader and my wife.

Adam Tarnow:

And we're trying to see all the ballparks and the baseball

Adam Tarnow:

ballparks. And I think I chatted with you all when we were

Adam Tarnow:

visiting on our last trip last summer when I first met you,

Adam Tarnow:

too, talking about what you all are doing now with the

Adam Tarnow:

podcasting. And we were up there and I think we were in

Adam Tarnow:

between Cincinnati and Cleveland.

Adam Tarnow:

When we chat, I think we drove right on by where you all

Adam Tarnow:

were. So that's another great way to see the country.

Adam Tarnow:

If you don't play golf, just go see them.

Adam Tarnow:

Go see the.

Glenn Harper:

Ballparks. There's some good, good stuff in both those two

Glenn Harper:

cities you just mentioned.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. So I got one final, like a softball question for you.

Glenn Harper:

So, you know, I would expect that you're in Texas, you'd

Glenn Harper:

have a little more pronounced accent because that's how you

Glenn Harper:

roll down there. But is it true that you ride bulls on the

Glenn Harper:

weekend for rodeos?

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, not just for rodeos.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, that is the preferred mode of transportation.

Adam Tarnow:

I know. So, yeah, they hang out in my backyard, I bring

Adam Tarnow:

them out on the weekend.

Adam Tarnow:

People will get theirs all painted up.

Glenn Harper:

And the big deal.

Adam Tarnow:

It's a whole.

Glenn Harper:

Deal. Someday I like to ride one because it just looks like

Glenn Harper:

a lot of fun. But, boy, that's a brutal.

Glenn Harper:

Well, why don't you?

Glenn Harper:

You know, Adam, would you mind sharing a little bit of what

Glenn Harper:

does your business do?

Glenn Harper:

What is the services that you provide?

Glenn Harper:

Just give a little a little spiel on that, please.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, it's really I would say this this is like some

Adam Tarnow:

recent stuff that I've been writing.

Adam Tarnow:

So I've been in business for 18 months now, which is part

Adam Tarnow:

of the journey, actually a little longer than that, getting

Adam Tarnow:

close to two years. But right now what I would say is the

Adam Tarnow:

mission is to do this is to curate the most helpful

Adam Tarnow:

leadership content my clients have ever encountered.

Adam Tarnow:

Curation is a word that I'm starting to really grow

Adam Tarnow:

comfortable with. When I first thought about what I wanted

Adam Tarnow:

to do as a consulting firm focused on leadership

Adam Tarnow:

development, I was thinking that I would develop my own

Adam Tarnow:

custom content or come up with my own custom content, and I

Adam Tarnow:

do that. But then I realized there's really nothing new

Adam Tarnow:

under the sun, right? A lot of what I do is I'm standing on

Adam Tarnow:

the shoulders of other great authors or thinkers and the

Adam Tarnow:

ideas that they've shared with the world.

Adam Tarnow:

And I'm just kind of organizing all of that.

Adam Tarnow:

So I really do think curation is a is a very accurate way

Adam Tarnow:

to describe what I do.

Adam Tarnow:

And when I present this this content to my clients, the,

Adam Tarnow:

the only customized piece that I get to to add to it or

Adam Tarnow:

where I get to put my fingerprint on it, is really deciding

Adam Tarnow:

how to organize the content.

Adam Tarnow:

So if I've got a client who wants to say they've got some

Adam Tarnow:

managers that need to get better at communicating or get

Adam Tarnow:

better at coaching, I get to decide what pieces to put

Adam Tarnow:

together and how do I want to organize that?

Adam Tarnow:

What is the basic theme?

Adam Tarnow:

So that's where I get to customize some things.

Adam Tarnow:

I get to add my own stories, metaphors, metaphors,

Adam Tarnow:

illustrations, videos.

Adam Tarnow:

I just get to share my own experience with that content.

Adam Tarnow:

So I get to add all of that and then I get to decide what

Adam Tarnow:

to emphasize, right? I can add my own perspectives and my

Adam Tarnow:

own opinions and some of my own story in there.

Adam Tarnow:

So. So that's a lot of what I do a lot of.

Adam Tarnow:

Mid-market sized clients, I would say, are really the sweet

Adam Tarnow:

spot for me right now.

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

where you have multiple level levels of leadership within

Adam Tarnow:

the organization, so you've got some.

Adam Tarnow:

If we think about the old just CPA firm type, where we've

Adam Tarnow:

got some seniors, some managers, senior managers partner.

Adam Tarnow:

So if you have some sort of of leadership structure within

Adam Tarnow:

the organization, that probably is is a client where I'm

Adam Tarnow:

going to be able to really serve well.

Adam Tarnow:

And and then maybe probably an organization also that

Adam Tarnow:

doesn't necessarily have an in-house training department.

Adam Tarnow:

There's a lot of my clients right now that there's maybe

Adam Tarnow:

one HR representative who is responsible for bringing in

Adam Tarnow:

training, but they don't have their own in-house training

Adam Tarnow:

department. So that's that's where the client base is kind

Adam Tarnow:

of starting to shake out right now, as is are those types

Adam Tarnow:

of clients and all sorts of industries.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, I've got everything from the largest franchisee of

Adam Tarnow:

a particular fast food brand to to somebody in the

Adam Tarnow:

biomedical industry.

Adam Tarnow:

And so it's like everything in between there.

Adam Tarnow:

Obviously I connect well with CPA firms as that being part

Adam Tarnow:

of my background as well.

Adam Tarnow:

So professional service providers.

Adam Tarnow:

But, but that's what we're doing.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm on the mission to try to curate helpful leadership

Adam Tarnow:

content.

Julie Smith:

So Adam, answer me this because I'm not quite following.

Julie Smith:

So you went to school, you became a CPA, then you got out

Julie Smith:

of that and you became a minister.

Julie Smith:

How did you fall into fall into this?

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, I like to if I think about my career, the only

Adam Tarnow:

metaphor I can find out there that seems to really describe

Adam Tarnow:

it well, is it my my career has turned into a Seinfeld

Adam Tarnow:

episode where you just had all of these plot lines that

Adam Tarnow:

seem to make no sense.

Adam Tarnow:

And then at the very end, it's like, oh, that okay, now

Adam Tarnow:

that all make sense how that came together.

Adam Tarnow:

So yeah, ten years as a CPA, ten years on staff at a

Adam Tarnow:

church, a little bit of grad school in between there and a

Adam Tarnow:

couple of other part time jobs in between there.

Adam Tarnow:

But so what CPA has taught me is how to think.

Adam Tarnow:

It taught me about corporate America, it taught me about

Adam Tarnow:

large organizations, certainly taught me how to be

Adam Tarnow:

organized and thoughtful.

Adam Tarnow:

What what ministry taught me was people just we're all the

Adam Tarnow:

same. We all have the same issues.

Adam Tarnow:

We have the same thoughts, feelings, emotions.

Adam Tarnow:

It taught me how people think and react.

Adam Tarnow:

It taught me a lot.

Adam Tarnow:

And being a part of a large organization there too, I also

Adam Tarnow:

learned about organizational life and what we were trying

Adam Tarnow:

to do in the nonprofit world was we were trying to lead,

Adam Tarnow:

right? We were trying to lead people.

Adam Tarnow:

And so I learned a ton about leadership there as well.

Adam Tarnow:

And so to me, like that, that corporate America thing and

Adam Tarnow:

then all this stuff that I understand about people, it all

Adam Tarnow:

came together with this consulting firm that I started, so

Adam Tarnow:

I can look back on it and go, Yeah, those were definitely

Adam Tarnow:

some right and left hand turns along the journey that were

Adam Tarnow:

maybe a little bit of a head scratcher.

Adam Tarnow:

But to me it all kind of makes sense right now.

Adam Tarnow:

It all came together because that's a lot of what I'm doing

Adam Tarnow:

right now, working with organizations and also trying to

Adam Tarnow:

help them with their people.

Adam Tarnow:

And so those two things come together in a way that I

Adam Tarnow:

probably when I was graduating from college, I could have

Adam Tarnow:

never written this out. I mean, this was I didn't know this

Adam Tarnow:

was where the journey was going to go, but it's I'm

Adam Tarnow:

grateful for it.

Glenn Harper:

So you don't you didn't just wake up.

Glenn Harper:

You just kind of woke up one day and said, Hey, I'm going

Glenn Harper:

to be an entrepreneur and start my own business.

Glenn Harper:

Or is that something that was, you know, percolating way

Glenn Harper:

back when?

Glenn Harper:

You're just just a lead growing up?

Glenn Harper:

When did that happen?

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, I would have never I would have never been accused of

Adam Tarnow:

being an entrepreneur growing up.

Glenn Harper:

That's crazy.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. And it was I really think if there's some ways, like

Adam Tarnow:

when I got out of college, I was living in Atlanta working

Adam Tarnow:

with PricewaterhouseCoopers and and candidly, I was a part

Adam Tarnow:

of a church there in town that was big.

Adam Tarnow:

And they were they were one of the first organizations that

Adam Tarnow:

introduced me to the concept of leadership.

Adam Tarnow:

And they were reading Built to Last and Jim Collins and

Adam Tarnow:

John Maxwell's 21 irrefutable laws of leadership.

Adam Tarnow:

And that I just became fascinated by that as a subject.

Adam Tarnow:

I'd never thought about that before.

Adam Tarnow:

As a subject. I always just thought about Leader was a

Adam Tarnow:

boss, that's all that I didn't understand that leadership

Adam Tarnow:

is more nuanced. It's about caring about people and trying

Adam Tarnow:

to influence people. And that's a skill.

Adam Tarnow:

I never thought it was a skill.

Adam Tarnow:

I thought it was just something it was a reward for.

Adam Tarnow:

Hey, when you're good at what you do and you get to be a

Adam Tarnow:

boss, it's a reward. I never thought about it as a skill.

Adam Tarnow:

So I'm really grateful that church and what they started to

Adam Tarnow:

teach me. So I just went on this like personally, it became

Adam Tarnow:

a hobby where I just started reading on this subject and

Adam Tarnow:

going to conferences and now eventually starting to listen

Adam Tarnow:

to podcasts, talk about leadership.

Adam Tarnow:

It just became a thing.

Adam Tarnow:

And it was it was this theme that ran through my entire

Adam Tarnow:

career, whether I was in a CPA firm or I was at the church,

Adam Tarnow:

I was always thinking about leadership and observing

Adam Tarnow:

leadership and trying to figure out what are ways that we

Adam Tarnow:

can become better leaders.

Adam Tarnow:

And and so when I went on staff at the church, I mean, just

Adam Tarnow:

real vulnerably, it was a big pay cut, honestly.

Adam Tarnow:

So I was a I was a manager in an audit firm.

Adam Tarnow:

I was making good money and and then I was making a lot

Adam Tarnow:

less. And so I maintained some connection to the CPA

Adam Tarnow:

community here in Dallas through training and speaking.

Adam Tarnow:

And so it was it was it was just it was supplemental income

Adam Tarnow:

for me and my family at the time.

Adam Tarnow:

And it was something that I loved.

Adam Tarnow:

And I was and I was starting to develop a little bit of an

Adam Tarnow:

aptitude for it and some skills and was starting to get

Adam Tarnow:

asked to speak at conferences.

Adam Tarnow:

And then that led to an accounting firm here in town more

Adam Tarnow:

formally engaging me to train their their managers and

Adam Tarnow:

their seniors.

Adam Tarnow:

And after about ten years on staff, I really don't know

Adam Tarnow:

what really probably after about seven years on staff, I

Adam Tarnow:

really started to realize that my heart was changing and I

Adam Tarnow:

was laying awake at night thinking more about, I bet I

Adam Tarnow:

could grow this consulting thing.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm really enjoying it.

Adam Tarnow:

And, and so it took me probably three years.

Adam Tarnow:

I had the conviction long before I had the courage, which I

Adam Tarnow:

think a lot of entrepreneurs can identify with that.

Adam Tarnow:

Some people you just know that you need to do this.

Adam Tarnow:

But that's that's one thing.

Adam Tarnow:

Then getting the courage to take a step out and at that

Adam Tarnow:

time having a family and older kids financially, it's

Adam Tarnow:

always a risk to go and do that.

Adam Tarnow:

I remember having a lunch with somebody telling them that I

Adam Tarnow:

was thinking about doing this, and the first question they

Adam Tarnow:

asked me is, Do you have six months of income saved up?

Adam Tarnow:

And I was like, Nope. They were like, Well, I really would

Adam Tarnow:

caution you against doing this then and now they had their

Adam Tarnow:

own story on on why that was their advice to me.

Adam Tarnow:

And I appreciate what they were saying.

Adam Tarnow:

And they were just that was the courage piece, right?

Adam Tarnow:

I just needed to get the courage to go and do this.

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

I actually told the the organization, the church that I was

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

was going to leave at the end of May.

Adam Tarnow:

And they were like, Well, what are you going to do?

Adam Tarnow:

I was like, Well, I'm going to go start this consulting

Adam Tarnow:

firm. I'm and I'm going to really focus on that more full

Adam Tarnow:

time and go seek more clients where I can do more live

Adam Tarnow:

training and work with leaders.

Adam Tarnow:

And that's what I've been doing kind of on the side, as you

Adam Tarnow:

all know. And I'm going to go give that a shot and you're

Adam Tarnow:

like, great. And you know, we don't want to see excuse me,

Adam Tarnow:

we don't want to see you go, but but we can't knock you if

Adam Tarnow:

we're going to try this. This makes a lot of sense.

Adam Tarnow:

And then the world, the world changed.

Adam Tarnow:

And so that, you know, that really was a test of that

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

not I was going to do this.

Glenn Harper:

When you were with the church and doing your thing and you

Glenn Harper:

would do these gigs on the side, is that something you were

Glenn Harper:

just volunteering to do or are you getting paid for that or

Glenn Harper:

you're getting paid to the church?

Glenn Harper:

How did that work? Just out of curiosity.

Adam Tarnow:

I was getting paid. And I think now what I realize is there

Adam Tarnow:

was a reason I was pretty busy because my rates, I was the

Adam Tarnow:

cheapest guy down.

Adam Tarnow:

And so like, how much is it?

Adam Tarnow:

I'm like, oh, this, you know, coming from the nonprofit

Adam Tarnow:

world, I was almost embarrassed to ask for what I was

Adam Tarnow:

asking for. Like, Oh, are they going to think I'm being

Adam Tarnow:

greedy and selfish? And, and I've fortunately changed my

Adam Tarnow:

prices a little bit now that it's a full time thing and

Adam Tarnow:

understand the value that it does provide for some

Adam Tarnow:

organizations.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. We always get a kick out of entrepreneurs, like when

Glenn Harper:

do you make that jump?

Glenn Harper:

Or and literally it's it's a cannon ball from the top of

Glenn Harper:

the building into it.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. You were able to.

Glenn Harper:

I think what some entrepreneurs get a chance to do is kind

Glenn Harper:

of slowly test the waters.

Glenn Harper:

And because you don't really know, you're just like, well,

Glenn Harper:

I like doing that. And then you're doing it and you're

Glenn Harper:

you're successful at it and you're like, you get a little

Glenn Harper:

more confidence, a little more swag.

Glenn Harper:

And then you're like, Hey, you know what?

Glenn Harper:

Maybe I could be this guy.

Glenn Harper:

I want to be that guy.

Glenn Harper:

But then, like you said, you probably knew that many years

Glenn Harper:

before you actually said, I'm going to go do this.

Glenn Harper:

And again, those we always talk about, it's not really

Glenn Harper:

regrets, but just if you could go back and change something

Glenn Harper:

in your in your journey, do you think that it would have

Glenn Harper:

been monumental change or just a nominal change if you'd

Glenn Harper:

have said, hey, instead of waiting that five, six years, if

Glenn Harper:

you'd had done this at year five, would that have

Glenn Harper:

accelerated where you're at today or were you just not

Glenn Harper:

quite ready yet?

Adam Tarnow:

That's a really thoughtful question, Glenn.

Adam Tarnow:

And I like that you ask that because it's something I've

Adam Tarnow:

been thinking about. And I'm candidly, I'm reading Daniel

Adam Tarnow:

Pink's new book on Regret right now.

Adam Tarnow:

And so it's really interesting as he is breaking that down

Adam Tarnow:

and talking about what regret is and how often we you know,

Adam Tarnow:

the way he describes it is we go back in time, we make a

Adam Tarnow:

different decision, then we come back to the future, so to

Adam Tarnow:

speak. And that's why we feel regret.

Adam Tarnow:

It's really interesting how he is talking about that.

Adam Tarnow:

I think the only regret that I really have, Glenn, if I

Adam Tarnow:

could go back and do it again, is maybe I would have had

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

2017. So I think it would have just been a few years that I

Adam Tarnow:

wish I would have started a tad bit sooner, but I don't

Adam Tarnow:

think I'd go back to college and choose to major in English

Adam Tarnow:

and then just start writing and developing content right

Adam Tarnow:

away. I think that's where, again, I'll go back to that

Adam Tarnow:

Seinfeld episode. Like those plotlines were necessary in

Adam Tarnow:

creating who I am and then the value that I believe I can

Adam Tarnow:

add to organizations today and to leaders today.

Adam Tarnow:

I needed that that ten years in accounting, I needed that

Adam Tarnow:

ten years on staff at Watermark or five or six years there

Adam Tarnow:

on staff I think would have been really helpful.

Adam Tarnow:

So that's the only change I think I would go back and make.

Glenn Harper:

You certainly couldn't. I mean, accountants can't write, so

Glenn Harper:

that would have not worked anyway.

Glenn Harper:

So you had to stay with the numbers because if you had to

Glenn Harper:

do handwriting, it'd have been over.

Glenn Harper:

No, no way.

Julie Smith:

Yes. So, Adam, you talked a little bit about the the person

Julie Smith:

that you met and they had asked, you know, do you have six

Julie Smith:

months of savings?

Julie Smith:

And it kind of played a role into that decision.

Julie Smith:

But is there anyone else that really stands out to you that

Julie Smith:

was a mentor that kind of helped guide you to get the

Julie Smith:

courage to make that jump and maybe you still have that

Julie Smith:

relationship today.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, thank you. That's another great question.

Adam Tarnow:

Yes. A guy named Randy Marshall and a guy named Jeff

Adam Tarnow:

Strasser, those were two very instrumental friends that

Adam Tarnow:

were looking me in the eye, hand on the shoulder.

Adam Tarnow:

I believe you can do this.

Adam Tarnow:

I don't think this is crazy.

Adam Tarnow:

Right. So we know you.

Adam Tarnow:

We've watched you for years.

Adam Tarnow:

We've seen you. I mean, Jeff Stresa in particular was the

Adam Tarnow:

chief the chief learning officer for a large wealth

Adam Tarnow:

management firm here in town.

Adam Tarnow:

At the time, he had hired me to come in and do some work

Adam Tarnow:

with his firm.

Adam Tarnow:

He also knew me from church and had seen me in that

Adam Tarnow:

context. So he had seen me in both contexts and had a lot

Adam Tarnow:

of experience here in DFW in that kind of consulting,

Adam Tarnow:

leadership, training space and was just going, You're not

Adam Tarnow:

crazy. And so I think you can do this.

Adam Tarnow:

I think you've got a product, I think you've got some

Adam Tarnow:

skills. I think you've got a willpower that you'll be able

Adam Tarnow:

to to do this and get some stuff done.

Adam Tarnow:

So those were very, very helpful along the way.

Adam Tarnow:

There's obviously a lot of friends that are putting you on

Adam Tarnow:

the back, and for me, that was the way I was trying to make

Adam Tarnow:

the decision is what the people who know me well, what are

Adam Tarnow:

they saying? Because if if there is a lot of caution and I

Adam Tarnow:

want to listen to that, I want to listen to the counsel of

Adam Tarnow:

others. And and so, yeah, Jeff and Randy were very

Adam Tarnow:

instrumental as I was making that decision.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. Because it's, it's weird.

Glenn Harper:

The entrepreneur, it's not we believe in what we do

Glenn Harper:

wholeheartedly of whatever that skill or task that we're

Glenn Harper:

doing. We just, we just know we can do it.

Glenn Harper:

But to actually run a business around it is a very

Glenn Harper:

intimidating thing for for most people.

Glenn Harper:

And if you don't have that mentor or somebody who really I

Glenn Harper:

don't want to say respects a big thing, but they've got to

Glenn Harper:

respect and believe in you so you can actually look

Glenn Harper:

yourself in the mirror and go, Man, I can believe.

Glenn Harper:

Gosh darn it, I'm Stuart Smalley.

Glenn Harper:

I can do this right.

Glenn Harper:

And when that happens again, it's just unfortunate.

Glenn Harper:

A lot of entrepreneurs don't seek those mentors because

Glenn Harper:

they're so busy doing their tasks that they don't think

Glenn Harper:

about that. But if you could just if you would just go out

Glenn Harper:

and explore and look at things and meet people and get in

Glenn Harper:

those groups, you might be surprised if you're listening as

Glenn Harper:

an entrepreneur that you might get to your journey, not

Glenn Harper:

your destination, but you'll get on that train a little bit

Glenn Harper:

quicker. If you can find that one person or a couple of

Glenn Harper:

people that really believe in you and just, you know, make

Glenn Harper:

you kind of challenge yourself, right?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, that's kind of what happened with you.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. Yeah. And I always wanted to to also make sure that my

Adam Tarnow:

life didn't become one of those opening episodes of

Adam Tarnow:

American Idol. You know, where the singer is terrible.

Adam Tarnow:

And they're looking at the judges are looking at them and

Adam Tarnow:

going, Who told you you could sing?

Adam Tarnow:

And they're like, Well, my mom and my sister, they all tell

Adam Tarnow:

me I'm great. And and so that's where for me, an abundance

Adam Tarnow:

of counselors on this was very, very helpful to make sure I

Adam Tarnow:

was not just picking and choosing people who were going to

Adam Tarnow:

tell me, Oh, you'll be great at this.

Adam Tarnow:

And then my life was going to was going to turn into a

Adam Tarnow:

different TV show and I didn't want that to happen.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, you can't be George Costanza because you get nothing

Glenn Harper:

done. But having a great show about nothing is always good.

Glenn Harper:

You know, when you're out there and you're trying to do

Glenn Harper:

your thing as an entrepreneur, the ability to you feel like

Glenn Harper:

you have to just stay on point all the time and just focus

Glenn Harper:

on one thing and try to get that done.

Glenn Harper:

But there's really that other side where it's that quest

Glenn Harper:

for knowledge, it's quest for relationships.

Glenn Harper:

But people are always scared to ask and or they're scared

Glenn Harper:

to say yes and said, You want to do this?

Glenn Harper:

You should always say yes, right?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, not all the time, but most of the time, if you

Glenn Harper:

would just double up the amount of times you say no and say

Glenn Harper:

yes, I can't imagine how many entrepreneurs out there would

Glenn Harper:

be achieve their success that they want so much quicker.

Glenn Harper:

And I think that's just a tragedy that people just don't

Glenn Harper:

talk about.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, so even if I go back to my story and start my

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

business plan was live training, there was no live

Adam Tarnow:

training. It was happening in June.

Adam Tarnow:

So now I'm trying to say yes to different things.

Adam Tarnow:

And I know one of your past guests, Janelle, who is a story

Adam Tarnow:

brand certified guide. I went through and did that and was

Adam Tarnow:

saying yes to helping some some of my friends with their

Adam Tarnow:

marketing. And and it was a way to use some of my curation

Adam Tarnow:

skills on, on writing and clarity and things like that said

Adam Tarnow:

yes to helping some clients with podcasting, you know, that

Adam Tarnow:

led to some business there.

Adam Tarnow:

And so that was really helpful to say yes to a lot of

Adam Tarnow:

things in the beginning because in the beginning I couldn't

Adam Tarnow:

really execute Plan A yet.

Adam Tarnow:

I was everybody was still learning the virtual training

Adam Tarnow:

space. And so I was certainly trying to say yes to some

Adam Tarnow:

virtual trainings, but it was still everybody is trying to

Adam Tarnow:

figure that out. So saying yes helped me put food on the

Adam Tarnow:

table for about the first 6 to 8 months of my business.

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

able to now start to say no to some of those other things

Adam Tarnow:

that I said yes to.

Adam Tarnow:

But I was so grateful for the learnings that happened in

Adam Tarnow:

there. I mean, obviously as an entrepreneur, I need to know

Adam Tarnow:

how to market. So I was really grateful that I said yes to

Adam Tarnow:

some of that. Podcasting is a big part of my business model

Adam Tarnow:

as well for my own personal brand.

Adam Tarnow:

And then it's a way to to help some other clients as well.

Adam Tarnow:

So I was grateful to say yes to those things because I

Adam Tarnow:

learned a ton as I went through that.

Adam Tarnow:

So so yeah, I mean, saying yes is very, very helpful

Adam Tarnow:

oftentimes. But then there comes a time where you do have

Adam Tarnow:

to focus. Right, right.

Adam Tarnow:

And and so I feel like I'm just getting now 18, 20 months

Adam Tarnow:

in where I have the luxury of saying no or it's more

Adam Tarnow:

strategic for me to say no to a few things, to really hone

Adam Tarnow:

in on the products that are profitable for me and where I

Adam Tarnow:

think I'm adding the most value and really where where I

Adam Tarnow:

want to take the business going forward.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, I think that the beginning entrepreneur then you go

Glenn Harper:

through the, you know, figuring out what the heck you want

Glenn Harper:

to do and how you want to do it.

Glenn Harper:

And then you're trying to just gather that information and

Glenn Harper:

ultimately you find out what you're going to do and then

Glenn Harper:

you've got to narrow it back a little bit.

Glenn Harper:

But that beginning stage, that's where that's the most

Glenn Harper:

important time to reach out and get that information.

Glenn Harper:

And I think what you said was, you know, we'll go back 100

Glenn Harper:

years from now and look back at what happened and, you

Glenn Harper:

Glenn Harper:

And it's it can't be any more glaring than you start off.

Glenn Harper:

I'm going to do this and instantly that it doesn't exist.

Glenn Harper:

There's no in person.

Glenn Harper:

And you had to do this pivot and go, right, turn, Clyde,

Glenn Harper:

and we're over here doing the virtual thing.

Glenn Harper:

And you had to figure it out because as an entrepreneur,

Glenn Harper:

you can't go back now.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, you committed I mean, you can't just stop because

Glenn Harper:

you believe in yourself so much.

Glenn Harper:

You figured it out.

Glenn Harper:

And entrepreneurs, you know, you just don't get frustrated

Glenn Harper:

and and go, Oh, no, what happened to me?

Glenn Harper:

It's got to be like, hey, there's another opportunity.

Glenn Harper:

I got to go through that door now.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, that's the a big takeaway, I hope, from this

Glenn Harper:

podcast that people will see that you are going to get

Glenn Harper:

roadblocks, you're going to get pummeled, but you just got

Glenn Harper:

to figure out a way to get around that roadblock.

Glenn Harper:

And I think you did it pretty well.

Adam Tarnow:

I hope so. Yeah.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, one way to judge it would be, you know, my family

Adam Tarnow:

and I, we haven't missed a meal and we've been able to put

Adam Tarnow:

gas on the car when we need it, you know, and all that.

Adam Tarnow:

You haven't missed a mortgage payment, all that kind of

Adam Tarnow:

stuff. So so from that perspective, yeah, it's turned out

Adam Tarnow:

to be okay. I mean, and again, going back to the courage

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

I was afraid of. Like, well, will we be able to can I

Adam Tarnow:

provide for. Or my family.

Adam Tarnow:

And so from that perspective, it's great to see that that

Adam Tarnow:

worked out, you know, and now we can start to dream about

Adam Tarnow:

where growth takes us and where it goes from here.

Glenn Harper:

But right there is the is the coolest thing ever is that

Glenn Harper:

until you commit, you can't you're never going to make it

Glenn Harper:

work. And when you have to put food on the table, there is

Glenn Harper:

no other option and there is no failure.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, we can't say failure in these podcasts, but there

Glenn Harper:

there is no going back.

Glenn Harper:

So but you can't commit until your back's against the wall

Glenn Harper:

and you're looking at your family go, well, you know, this

Glenn Harper:

has to work. I have to make this work versus well, I'll

Glenn Harper:

kind of sort of and I'll get to it next week.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, what a great way to get you get you motivated when

Glenn Harper:

you don't have any choices.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, that's a big deal.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. For 20, 20 some odd years of my career, I had my boss

Adam Tarnow:

is telling me to think like an owner.

Adam Tarnow:

Think like an owner. Think like an owner.

Adam Tarnow:

I understood the the intent there behind that.

Adam Tarnow:

But it was always difficult to act like an owner sometimes

Adam Tarnow:

because I wasn't I mean, it was like this is an acting

Adam Tarnow:

exercise. I get what you're trying to tell me to do.

Adam Tarnow:

You want me to take responsibility?

Adam Tarnow:

And that was a great a great thing for me to continue to do

Adam Tarnow:

as a as a young leader.

Adam Tarnow:

But this is the first time I've owned something.

Adam Tarnow:

And so, yes, there is a when you're walking across that

Adam Tarnow:

tightrope and there's no net, you're a little more focused

Adam Tarnow:

and there's a little more motivation.

Glenn Harper:

It's the best, though, isn't it?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, it's an incredible euphoria because you're just

Glenn Harper:

it's all you. It's you versus the world.

Glenn Harper:

But it it isn't like an adversarial thing.

Glenn Harper:

It's more like, hey, I can do this.

Glenn Harper:

I can compete at this level, I can do this.

Glenn Harper:

And it's a really whole different thing.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Julie Smith:

So I have one another question for you.

Julie Smith:

And I think you kind of are at an advantage because you're

Julie Smith:

in the corporate world and then you were really a big part

Julie Smith:

of your team at the church.

Julie Smith:

But from a leadership perspective and your role in what

Julie Smith:

you're doing today, what does team mean to you and what how

Julie Smith:

is that influenced where you are and what you're doing?

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, yeah. That is maybe one of the things I miss the most

Adam Tarnow:

is that that really that feeling of being on a team because

Adam Tarnow:

my team right now is me and, and then my wife who is a non

Adam Tarnow:

paid employee at times.

Adam Tarnow:

Right. She comes and helps out but it's like, well, the

Adam Tarnow:

money's all going in the same place.

Adam Tarnow:

So there's no need to know, need to formalize that by

Adam Tarnow:

giving you a salary.

Adam Tarnow:

And so, yeah, for me what I have to do with team is really

Adam Tarnow:

that, that I don't want to say joint venture, but those

Adam Tarnow:

professional relationships where we know there's going to

Adam Tarnow:

be mutual benefit.

Adam Tarnow:

And so some podcast with some friends who also have their

Adam Tarnow:

own personal brand, but we're coming together to to do

Adam Tarnow:

this. So my buddy Clay Scroggins and I, we've got a podcast

Adam Tarnow:

called How to Lead. He's in Atlanta.

Adam Tarnow:

I've known him for 20 years.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm here in Dallas.

Adam Tarnow:

He has a very similar career journey to me.

Adam Tarnow:

And and it's trying to do very similar things.

Adam Tarnow:

And so we have done a joint venture on that podcast to try

Adam Tarnow:

to come together. It helps both of our personal brands,

Adam Tarnow:

helps us test out some ideas that we're trying to share

Adam Tarnow:

with our clients.

Adam Tarnow:

And then that has naturally led into some other products

Adam Tarnow:

that we're trying to do together around, like specifically

Adam Tarnow:

around employee engagement.

Adam Tarnow:

Right now, we've got this thing called the team engagement

Adam Tarnow:

sprint and we're just trying to help organizations and

Adam Tarnow:

teams that are struggling with retention and engagement.

Adam Tarnow:

We feel like the workforce is thinking differently about

Adam Tarnow:

work right now, and so leaders need to start thinking

Adam Tarnow:

differently about their their workplace and how they engage

Adam Tarnow:

people. And so those are some things that we're doing

Adam Tarnow:

together that does feel like a sense of team.

Adam Tarnow:

But but I think that would be one area that if you too were

Adam Tarnow:

my business coach, where you would continue to challenge me

Adam Tarnow:

to not get isolated and to continue to maintain those

Adam Tarnow:

professional relationships where there is vulnerability.

Adam Tarnow:

You're talking about the highs and the lows.

Adam Tarnow:

You're seeking counsel, seeking advice.

Adam Tarnow:

I think that's an area where I still have to continue to

Adam Tarnow:

push myself to do that right now.

Julie Smith:

Do you think when you go into these companies and you

Julie Smith:

provide the training, though, is there some sense of team

Julie Smith:

in that regard? Because essentially they're hiring you as

Julie Smith:

the captain of their team to lead them to the next level or

Julie Smith:

to take them or pivot or do something like that.

Julie Smith:

You have to kind of get a little bit of that team high when

Julie Smith:

you go in and achieve that.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, that's really good. I don't know if I would have been

Adam Tarnow:

able to put words on that, but but you're exactly right.

Adam Tarnow:

That is it. I mean, especially some of these clients that

Adam Tarnow:

I've had for a long time, I do feel like I'm a part of

Adam Tarnow:

their team now and they do view me as that trusted advisor.

Adam Tarnow:

And so, yeah, that is an aspect of it as well, that maybe I

Adam Tarnow:

haven't been able to put words on that.

Adam Tarnow:

But you're exactly right, there is a high because when they

Adam Tarnow:

do well, I feel like, okay, I got to contribute to that and

Adam Tarnow:

that was a lot of fun.

Glenn Harper:

So what's this is?

Glenn Harper:

Again, only an account would understand this humor.

Glenn Harper:

But, you know, do you find yourself sometimes you're

Glenn Harper:

sitting there at this organization and you're doing what

Glenn Harper:

you do with them and you're looking around and go, You guys

Glenn Harper:

are doing this all wrong.

Glenn Harper:

I could reorganize this thing.

Glenn Harper:

I get you a new tax structure, I get a new GL, I get all

Glenn Harper:

kinds of things I could do for you and do some

Glenn Harper:

multinational corporations.

Glenn Harper:

Do you ever? Take that hat totally off.

Glenn Harper:

You just kind of bite your tongue and not say anything.

Adam Tarnow:

No, listen, Glenn, I was a very average accountant.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, I think I think my career is better that I'm not

Adam Tarnow:

doing that anymore.

Adam Tarnow:

And so, no, I often I'll think about reorganization, but

Adam Tarnow:

not like, oh, if you set it up this way, it's more like if

Adam Tarnow:

you move to that person over there and then that one over

Adam Tarnow:

there, and if you all were just clear about this, I think

Adam Tarnow:

this team would do better. So that's where my brain goes.

Glenn Harper:

Oh, my God, that's funny.

Glenn Harper:

So is it safe to say, you know, as you went through this

Glenn Harper:

journey as a kid and here we are today and maybe an

Glenn Harper:

accountant and doing all these things, you know, have you

Glenn Harper:

defined that your superpower?

Glenn Harper:

Like, what is that thing that you're like, man, I'm I'm

Glenn Harper:

just the man at that. This is I just rock this space.

Glenn Harper:

Is it talking?

Glenn Harper:

Is it looking good?

Glenn Harper:

Is it motivating people?

Glenn Harper:

You know, what is that.

Julie Smith:

Your NFL linebacker stature, right?

Adam Tarnow:

No, I've never gotten so many positive comments about the

Adam Tarnow:

way I look and I have on this podcast.

Adam Tarnow:

So I will come back whenever you want me to.

Adam Tarnow:

No, that's so funny.

Adam Tarnow:

Again, I was just thinking about this Monday night.

Adam Tarnow:

I think I was writing this down because I was in a

Adam Tarnow:

conversation with a leader.

Adam Tarnow:

No, it was Tuesday, Tuesday night, where I just asked this

Adam Tarnow:

leader, he's the CEO of of an organization here in town.

Adam Tarnow:

And I just said, hey, what's your like what's like what are

Adam Tarnow:

you a craftsman of?

Adam Tarnow:

Like, what's your craftsmanship?

Adam Tarnow:

So what is this identity that you go, this is who I am and

Adam Tarnow:

what I do. This is my vocation.

Adam Tarnow:

So which got me thinking about that.

Adam Tarnow:

How, how would I describe what what I think I'm good at?

Adam Tarnow:

And I think I just I'm a teacher.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, I think that really is it is I just love to teach.

Adam Tarnow:

I love to learn.

Adam Tarnow:

I love to systematize that information and I love to share

Adam Tarnow:

it with others. I really do that.

Adam Tarnow:

That is something that I can remember all the way back to

Adam Tarnow:

eighth grade in my math class being able to.

Adam Tarnow:

We had a student teacher one semester and she every day we

Adam Tarnow:

started off with an exercise basically reviewing the lesson

Adam Tarnow:

that we went over the day before.

Adam Tarnow:

So we'd show up and there was a lesson or there was a

Adam Tarnow:

problem on the board. We would all do it, and then the

Adam Tarnow:

teacher would go through and go over that lesson with the

Adam Tarnow:

class. And I remember she got to the point where she was

Adam Tarnow:

letting me get up there and teach that exercise and that

Adam Tarnow:

lesson, like going over it with the class.

Adam Tarnow:

And I loved it. I was like, okay, I'm going to do this.

Adam Tarnow:

Hey, can I get up there and can I lead this part of the

Adam Tarnow:

class? And she was like, Sure.

Adam Tarnow:

And I remember one time, so she was a student teacher, so

Adam Tarnow:

her professor was there observing the class and I got up

Adam Tarnow:

there and did that.

Adam Tarnow:

And as an eighth grader, I didn't know who this this lady

Adam Tarnow:

was in the back. It didn't. I was just doing my thing.

Adam Tarnow:

And that professor came up to me at the end of class and

Adam Tarnow:

she kind of pulled me aside and she just said, I just want

Adam Tarnow:

to let you know what you did up there was fantastic.

Adam Tarnow:

And I think you really have some teaching gifts and you

Adam Tarnow:

should think about that.

Adam Tarnow:

You know, 14 year old Adam was just like, you know,

Adam Tarnow:

whatever. I don't know and didn't really think much about

Adam Tarnow:

it. But I can think back to that moment and then just all

Adam Tarnow:

the moments throughout my career where I felt the most

Adam Tarnow:

alive and it usually had something to do with teaching.

Adam Tarnow:

And so so I would say that's probably what I feel like I'm

Adam Tarnow:

the best at.

Julie Smith:

So you said something very interesting and powerful in the

Julie Smith:

beginning of this interview, and I think that it really hit

Julie Smith:

home for me because I think that a lot of people don't see

Julie Smith:

it the way that you said it.

Julie Smith:

And you said leadership is a skill and you just described a

Julie Smith:

skill that you've had your entire life and essentially

Julie Smith:

you've been able to capitalize on it.

Julie Smith:

But for anyone out there who heard that and it was rattling

Julie Smith:

around again, that that kind of really stuck with me.

Julie Smith:

What advice would you give to people that have that skill,

Julie Smith:

that haven't been able to capitalize on it or have the

Julie Smith:

awareness about it instead of, like you said, most people

Julie Smith:

think they earn this position to have leadership and that's

Julie Smith:

just untrue. It's truly a skill.

Julie Smith:

What what advice would you give them?

Julie Smith:

Because I think that's.

Adam Tarnow:

So how to grow in the skill of leadership.

Julie Smith:

Yeah. And how to, how to really capitalize on that,

Julie Smith:

understand it, be aware of it.

Julie Smith:

Again, it's not, you know, it's not a position that you

Julie Smith:

earn. It's something that comes from within that you're

Julie Smith:

able to exert.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah. I mean so again, my teacher side is going to have a

Adam Tarnow:

bias towards just go study it.

Adam Tarnow:

And so that to me is always such a great way to do it.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, we live in the golden age of learning right now.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, like what we're doing right now, there's so much

Adam Tarnow:

free content out there that there really is no excuse to

Adam Tarnow:

not be a continuous learner anymore.

Adam Tarnow:

I mean, between master classes and YouTube and LinkedIn

Adam Tarnow:

classes and trainings that your company provides and books

Adam Tarnow:

that are out there in audio books and podcasts, it's just

Adam Tarnow:

so I think for some, like it just starts with curiosity and

Adam Tarnow:

just wanting to learn and finding some voices that really

Adam Tarnow:

do that you really do resonate with.

Adam Tarnow:

So like for example, I mentioned Daniel, Daniel Pink, like

Adam Tarnow:

he would be a mentor of mine that I've never met, but I

Adam Tarnow:

just resonate with the way he talks and the way he

Adam Tarnow:

communicates. It's ideas.

Adam Tarnow:

And he has had a profound influence on my on my leadership

Adam Tarnow:

skill. I take his ideas from his books.

Adam Tarnow:

I apply them to my life because he's so clear when he

Adam Tarnow:

writes. And I find that very helpful.

Adam Tarnow:

So I think it's it's like finding some voices that you

Adam Tarnow:

really resonate with and just going, okay, I'm going to I'm

Adam Tarnow:

going to try to apply what this person says to my

Adam Tarnow:

leadership journey. And I think what what is so freeing

Adam Tarnow:

about the leadership as a skill is it's like any skill and

Adam Tarnow:

it's like if you don't use it, you're going to lose it and

Adam Tarnow:

you can get better at it.

Adam Tarnow:

So wherever you're wherever you are right now, you can get

Adam Tarnow:

better. And so there's a bunch of ways that you can get

Adam Tarnow:

better as a leader.

Adam Tarnow:

But a guy named Clay Scroggins and a guy named Duke Rivard

Adam Tarnow:

really helped me understand.

Adam Tarnow:

Adam Tarnow:

When You're Not in Charge, which was such a great title of

Adam Tarnow:

a book, and it's so just amazing.

Adam Tarnow:

And he just really unleashed this idea that leadership is

Adam Tarnow:

about influence, and you can influence anywhere in the

Adam Tarnow:

organization, anywhere, I'm sure for your firm right now,

Adam Tarnow:

you've probably got maybe the most influential person in

Adam Tarnow:

your firm doesn't have a leadership title, whether it be

Adam Tarnow:

through a positive attitude that they bring every day or a

Adam Tarnow:

negative attitude that they bring every day, they're

Adam Tarnow:

influencing people.

Adam Tarnow:

And so so leadership is influence.

Adam Tarnow:

Wherever you sit in the organization, you can have some

Adam Tarnow:

influence. And then my buddy Duke Rivard, taught me what I

Adam Tarnow:

think is the best definition of leadership that I've ever

Adam Tarnow:

heard. That to be a leader really is just somebody who

Adam Tarnow:

takes initiative for the benefit of other people.

Adam Tarnow:

So you just take initiative for the benefit of other people

Adam Tarnow:

that so some of those concepts along my leadership journey

Adam Tarnow:

have really helped form the way I think about it.

Adam Tarnow:

And so to me it was all just being open, curious, listening

Adam Tarnow:

for ideas, having a desire to want to get better at that

Adam Tarnow:

skill. And you'll always find an opportunity to use it.

Adam Tarnow:

And I love sharing that with emerging leaders is just do

Adam Tarnow:

not wait to get the title.

Adam Tarnow:

You can start leading right now.

Adam Tarnow:

Where can you take initiative today for the benefit of

Adam Tarnow:

other people? Go do that.

Adam Tarnow:

And I'm telling you, you start to do that one day after

Adam Tarnow:

another, day after another day soon, you're going to find

Adam Tarnow:

that a title matches the amount of influence that you've

Adam Tarnow:

got. And with the title, hopefully comes some more

Adam Tarnow:

financial reward and more opportunity and all that and so

Adam Tarnow:

on.

Glenn Harper:

It's eighth grade.

Glenn Harper:

When you talked about that, it's one of the things that I

Glenn Harper:

find for myself and Julie, I think probably the same same

Glenn Harper:

way on this. And you I'm going to try to put it all

Glenn Harper:

together. There's a lot of thoughts in my head on this, but

Glenn Harper:

ultimately you can't really learn something and know

Glenn Harper:

something until you take that and try to teach it to

Glenn Harper:

somebody else.

Glenn Harper:

For some reason, it just makes you have that clarity.

Glenn Harper:

And ultimately there you are helping somebody else.

Glenn Harper:

And you're doing this in eighth grade, right?

Glenn Harper:

And here you are, what, ten years later?

Glenn Harper:

15 years later, you're doing it now.

Glenn Harper:

But whatever that is.

Adam Tarnow:

For the record, that's the third positive element.

Glenn Harper:

We're always keeping it positive.

Adam Tarnow:

But my wife's going to get jealous.

Adam Tarnow:

I know she's going to be like, Hey, I don't know what's

Adam Tarnow:

going on.

Glenn Harper:

Who is this guy? And I think that that the teaching part is

Glenn Harper:

really everything in life now, because once you acquire

Glenn Harper:

that knowledge, why not might not teach somebody and not

Glenn Harper:

only resonates more with you, but you're helping somebody

Glenn Harper:

else. And then the other thing in eighth grade that I can

Glenn Harper:

Glenn Harper:

how many people want to get up and actually do the hardest

Glenn Harper:

thing ever at that age and go in front of speaking people

Glenn Harper:

speak in front of people like it's impossible.

Glenn Harper:

But ultimately your deepest, darkest fears, scariness,

Glenn Harper:

whatever that is, go do that.

Glenn Harper:

The first thing when you get done with this podcast, go, go

Glenn Harper:

put a trench on your face.

Glenn Harper:

I don't care. Whatever that thing is, you literally, once

Glenn Harper:

you overcome that fear, you are a different person because

Glenn Harper:

you don't have those shackles on you anymore.

Glenn Harper:

You can be free again.

Glenn Harper:

So those biggest fears are things you're scared of.

Glenn Harper:

Just do those first, first thing in the morning and

Glenn Harper:

everything else is downhill.

Adam Tarnow:

That's right. That's right.

Adam Tarnow:

That's really good advice. I like that.

Glenn Harper:

Well, I think we got one more kind of final question that

Glenn Harper:

well, I guess I got two.

Glenn Harper:

The first one is, you know, when we see people as

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs are kind of doing two things.

Glenn Harper:

One, they're kind of doing business when they have the

Glenn Harper:

skill set and they're doing what they do and they do it

Glenn Harper:

very well. And you can make a great living at that.

Glenn Harper:

You find your balance if you do it right and there's

Glenn Harper:

nothing wrong with doing business.

Glenn Harper:

But sometimes people want to make the conversion where they

Glenn Harper:

say, Look, I'm tired of just doing all the work.

Glenn Harper:

I want to build a business.

Glenn Harper:

Do you see yourself?

Glenn Harper:

I see you kind of as doing business right now.

Glenn Harper:

Do you see yourself ever wanting to go build this mega

Glenn Harper:

business or are you pretty happy doing what you do?

Glenn Harper:

And you find your right balance and you're making what you

Glenn Harper:

want to make and do what you want to do, or you're like,

Glenn Harper:

you know? And Glenn, it's a funny conversation.

Glenn Harper:

Five years from now, I want to have 37 consultants like me

Glenn Harper:

doing this.

Adam Tarnow:

That I don't know honestly how to answer that great answer.

Adam Tarnow:

Right now I'm very content with what I've got.

Adam Tarnow:

And that was one of the that was surprising on this

Adam Tarnow:

entrepreneurial journey.

Adam Tarnow:

How many leaders when I was when I were talking to them,

Adam Tarnow:

they were asking me, so are you going to build a business

Adam Tarnow:

or are you going to be a solopreneur?

Adam Tarnow:

Like, what's what are you going to do?

Adam Tarnow:

And so I think right now there's a tremendous amount of

Adam Tarnow:

contentment as a solopreneur, personal brand doing.

Adam Tarnow:

And I have some examples in my mind which has been very

Adam Tarnow:

powerful for me to just think through, not where do I want

Adam Tarnow:

to be with some numbers or some words written down, but put

Adam Tarnow:

some faces out there of people who I think are doing at a

Adam Tarnow:

high level what I would want to do.

Adam Tarnow:

And so there's a guy like Jon Acuff comes to mind is a guy

Adam Tarnow:

who I've never met but seems to be doing some very similar

Adam Tarnow:

things under his own personal brand, writing books and

Adam Tarnow:

speaking and doing trainings.

Adam Tarnow:

And so I'm attracted to that.

Adam Tarnow:

I think the the autonomy that he has and the upside I like

Adam Tarnow:

the downside is you've got to buy the business from

Adam Tarnow:

yourself along the way because there's no exit strategy.

Adam Tarnow:

And I think as an accountant, I appreciate understanding

Adam Tarnow:

that, that right now I can't just take all the revenue and

Adam Tarnow:

put it in my pocket. I've got to start buying the business

Adam Tarnow:

from myself if I'm not going to grow it and sell it one

Adam Tarnow:

day.

Glenn Harper:

Oh, so now you're bringing all the accounting in.

Glenn Harper:

Now I get it. I see how you're drawing.

Glenn Harper:

I see what you're doing.

Adam Tarnow:

For that skill. That's right.

Adam Tarnow:

Very great.

Glenn Harper:

So final question is, you know, what's the end game?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, is everybody not everybody, but a lot of

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs think they have to chase this magical number

Glenn Harper:

thing, whatever that is.

Glenn Harper:

I don't really get that feel for me.

Glenn Harper:

These are chasing anything. You're just having a good time

Glenn Harper:

and for some reason you get paid.

Adam Tarnow:

Yeah, I do have some owners intent in Casey Graham's new

Adam Tarnow:

book, The No BS Small Business Book, a great resource that

Adam Tarnow:

I would recommend for for entrepreneurs.

Adam Tarnow:

I just read it two weeks ago.

Adam Tarnow:

It was very, very fast.

Adam Tarnow:

Read the first section there.

Adam Tarnow:

He talks about owners intent.

Adam Tarnow:

What is your intent? Like, what are you trying to do?

Adam Tarnow:

And your owner's intent can change as your business

Adam Tarnow:

changes. My owner's intent is very focused right now on

Adam Tarnow:

what I would say is building a platform.

Adam Tarnow:

And for the first time in my life, I think I understand why

Adam Tarnow:

I want to build a platform. It felt very icky to say that

Adam Tarnow:

before because it was like, I don't want to be famous,

Adam Tarnow:

right? I'm not trying to be famous.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm not trying to be a celebrity platform.

Adam Tarnow:

Felt like fame or something.

Adam Tarnow:

Like I was telling everybody, I just want to be rich and

Adam Tarnow:

famous, you know, like all the millennials want.

Adam Tarnow:

And so it felt like that.

Adam Tarnow:

But but I understand now that I want to build a platform,

Adam Tarnow:

because what I want to do, if I think about the spectrum of

Adam Tarnow:

hustle for work versus manage the demand that people are

Adam Tarnow:

reaching out to you for work.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm way over here on Hustle, right?

Adam Tarnow:

I'm sending out emails.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm asking for business.

Adam Tarnow:

I'm trying to do things to build the platform, build the

Adam Tarnow:

email list, build the LinkedIn subscribers or the LinkedIn

Adam Tarnow:

followers and connections.

Adam Tarnow:

Because what I want to do is I kind of want to not mark it

Adam Tarnow:

right? Like that takes up so much time to mark it.

Adam Tarnow:

So I want to get a platform to make selling easier and to

Adam Tarnow:

build that tribe that knows me, trust me, and they will

Adam Tarnow:

continue to hire me again.

Adam Tarnow:

So that that's my endgame right now is just thinking

Adam Tarnow:

through the platform building.

Adam Tarnow:

And that's my owner's intent now.

Adam Tarnow:

And I think once I reach that goal, then I'll have to think

Adam Tarnow:

about the next owner's intent where where I think that's

Adam Tarnow:

when I would get to the language of what is the endgame,

Adam Tarnow:

how much longer do I want to do this for?

Adam Tarnow:

And probably I think right now my accounting brain, I would

Adam Tarnow:

just pick a number that I feel like my wife and I need in

Adam Tarnow:

the account and then just start working backwards and just

Adam Tarnow:

go, okay, what?

Adam Tarnow:

We've got ten years now.

Adam Tarnow:

How far away are we from that number?

Adam Tarnow:

And and I think that's I think that's how we'd solve that

Adam Tarnow:

problem.

Glenn Harper:

But that's a trick question because there's not a number.

Glenn Harper:

Just so you know, the accountant wants to make a number,

Glenn Harper:

but there's no number. There is not there.

Glenn Harper:

And the other funny thing you said, like, you just can't

Glenn Harper:

get away of being an accountant. I'm just sorry.

Glenn Harper:

You just can't, because here you are saying you don't like

Glenn Harper:

to do sales. Are you kidding me?

Glenn Harper:

An account that doesn't like to do sales that just doesn't

Glenn Harper:

exist. That's the funniest thing ever.

Adam Tarnow:

But I'm so rare.

Glenn Harper:

I know. It's so bizarre.

Glenn Harper:

Not stereotypical at all.

Glenn Harper:

Well, Adam, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on

Glenn Harper:

the show today. I hope all of our listeners.

Glenn Harper:

They glean some some points that will resonate with them

Glenn Harper:

and help them maybe make that next step to try to be all

Glenn Harper:

they can be and live the dream that's out there for all of

Glenn Harper:

us to do. Again, this Glen Harper.

Glenn Harper:

And thanks again for joining us today.

Julie Smith:

And Julie Smith.

Glenn Harper:

Take care.

Glenn Harper:

Adam Tarnow: Thanks, guys.