Brett Johnson from Circle270Media

Glenn:

Hi, this is Glenn Harper and Julie Smith, and we're talking with Brett Johnson of

Glenn:

Circle270Media today, a fellow entrepreneur.

Glenn:

I've been working with him for a few months and we just love how he rolls.

Glenn:

So we're going to try to hear why he does what he does, what he does and how does he feel

Glenn:

about that? Well, thanks for asking me.

Brett:

From across the room, anytime I can.

Glenn:

So what brings you here today?

Glenn:

What's what's the story you got to tell?

Glenn:

How did you get started?

Brett:

I got started.

Brett:

You know, amazingly enough, I was in radio for almost 30 years.

Brett:

I started when I was 17.

Glenn:

Are you a broadcasting behind the scenes?

Brett:

Yeah, radio is on air and then changed into sales.

Brett:

About halfway through, I realized that if you're on air, you don't make any money and

Brett:

sales sales, at least you can.

Brett:

If they change the locks on the door and change the format, you still have a job about

Brett:

that. So sales turned into that.

Brett:

And that was actually a big jump for me because on air, I was comfortable.

Brett:

Love doing it, but it's a young person's game, quite frankly.

Brett:

And but I realized, OK, if I'm going to make money and also be flexible, I need to do

Brett:

this. But I was not a salesperson.

Brett:

I right, I was that old WKRP kind of feel like of your sales organization.

Brett:

Oh, yeah, you know, that kind of stuff.

Brett:

And and my my fiance at the time and now my wife said, you know, do it your own way.

Brett:

Do sales your way.

Brett:

If it's successful, that's great.

Brett:

If not, OK, you tried.

Brett:

And that really helped.

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And it's like, OK, I'm going to do it the way I want to do it, you know, so it breaks

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that mold in my head that I have not sleazy and you know, the used car salesman kind of

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feel to it. Still not the most comfortable thing in the world to do, but I've got the

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confidence and the thick skin to take nose.

Glenn:

Isn't it funny that everybody thinks that you don't have to be in sales to be an

Glenn:

entrepreneur?

Brett:

I know like, Oh, you got it all in sales, you've got to be, you're selling something, if

Brett:

nothing else yourself and your concept, right?

Brett:

So after that, I moved around different stations and ended up in Columbus with my wife,

Brett:

and she teaches at Wright State University.

Brett:

And we end up moving on

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To the west side of Columbus and still stuck around here with radio and the past the last

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five years. I guess it was when I was with the radio station just didn't.

Brett:

I was bored.

Brett:

It just wasn't the same.

Brett:

Radio changed over 30 years for

Glenn:

Me, was it? And that was in the sales capacity.

Brett:

Right? Yeah, just it just wasn't as fun.

Brett:

Got more corporate.

Brett:

Even though I was out with a local, independently owned radio station, it just didn't.

Brett:

It just wasn't fun anymore.

Brett:

I still love radio itself, but I think it's this what it was in the past for me.

Glenn:

So if you could have stayed in the broadcasting side and being on air, would you have

Glenn:

continued to do that?

Glenn:

Is that was your was that your calling or was

Brett:

It not, you know, with the way radio changed?

Brett:

No, because radio is even more tight than it is on.

Brett:

Was it on air?

Brett:

Right? When I started on air back in the 80s and 90s, you can you weren't scripted.

Brett:

You didn't have the three by five cards that you had to read.

Brett:

Every time when you hear on air personalities, now they're reading something, they have

Brett:

to say what they're saying.

Brett:

There's not a whole lot of ad libbing going on, and now it's talk radio.

Brett:

Yes, but the music driven what they say needs to be said.

Brett:

So, you know, when that evolution came that even music driven radio stations, you

Brett:

couldn't talk about what you wanted to talk about a little bit, you know, without going

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on and on and on and on that that doesn't entice me at all.

Brett:

And that's where this podcasting thing kind of came in.

Glenn:

So the man was kind of telling you what to say and said, you just sandwich you for sure.

Speaker2:

You had to promote stuff that's coming up with the station and our clients, that sort of

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thing.

Speaker1:

They more had a narrative.

Speaker1:

And for all of our listeners out there who probably don't even listen to the radio, I've

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never even been on the radio or ever have or even have a radio.

Speaker1:

You know, we're talking. This is last the last century when we started doing this right.

Speaker1:

So it has changed a lot.

Speaker1:

It's way different than Sirius XM or whatever, right?

Speaker1:

It's just way different.

Speaker1:

They just play the same canned thing.

Speaker1:

It's not

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Very

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Tested or corporate owned, I'd say.

Speaker1:

Very, very much so.

Speaker2:

Very much so. It's driven that way.

Speaker2:

So those last few years that I was with the station, I started noticing and getting these

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questions from clients about podcasting that they I had a few that would do Sunday

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morning infomercials or long form programming.

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We used to call and you'd buy a 25 30 minute block of time.

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But they they also started to realize and ask me about it as well.

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It was like, Well, wait a minute, if it's if I'm on a Sunday morning, 8:00 to 8:30.

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And that listener tunes in at eight thirty one, it's done.

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It's like, Yeah, you're right.

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So that got me to thinking about podcasting and looking at it more and more and with a

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couple of other programming elements that I was working with with the radio station and

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gardening program and such.

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Taking a look at how can we use what we produce and use it more than once and do more

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with it and get those listeners still excited and buy in and listen at their leisure

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versus when we tell them to make?

Speaker2:

An appointment to listen to a program,

Speaker1:

How long ago was this that you made that

Speaker2:

About when it's funny?

Speaker2:

I did all this when I turned 50.

Speaker1:

The midlife crisis. Midlife crisis.

Speaker1:

No better time to make a change.

Speaker2:

So with all these advertisers asking me about this, I started doing my, you know, it

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started going to what I call night school and just plowing through bunches of listen to

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podcasts, reading all about this stuff and became pretty good at understanding what to do

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with this. Pretty quickly, over about six or seven months of just, you know, every night

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reading about and listening.

Speaker2:

So all of a sudden I started working with clients doing this on the side outside of the

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station. And there came a point where doing this as a side hustle interfered with my

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regular work.

Speaker1:

We call that moonlighting in the business where you're not really to go all in on being an

Speaker1:

entrepreneur, right, because you want to test it.

Speaker1:

And some people get the luxury of being able to do that to just feel what it looks like

Speaker1:

versus going cold turkey, which is a big deal, right?

Speaker2:

And we had a culture at the station that most other sales reps had other stuff going on.

Speaker1:

So I find that I find it fascinating that sales reps are doing something on the side, not

Speaker1:

just selling. I'm fascinated by that.

Speaker2:

It's not non-competitive, but they have to watch their time, make sure they're not doing

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it during the day. And mine was starting to creep in my 9:00 to 5:00 versus my five to

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nine, as I would call it.

Speaker2:

And that was when I made the choice.

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I, you know, gave my notice.

Speaker2:

I think I've got to do this and I felt comfortable enough that I could do it.

Speaker2:

And I also had a couple of people working with me that were really getting in my head,

Speaker2:

going, Brett, it's time to move on.

Speaker2:

It's time to move on. You can do a lot more than what you're doing.

Speaker2:

You understand that you know more than what you really know.

Speaker3:

Do you think it was those relationships that really pushed you to take that jump?

Speaker2:

Big time, big time.

Speaker2:

I would I.

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I probably would have made the jump a little bit later than what I did, but I had that

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support system that truly believed and I believed that they believed in me that I could

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get it done.

Speaker3:

And do you think to this day, you do still surround yourself with those same people and

Speaker3:

they're still in your circles?

Speaker2:

Still in my circle, still in my circle, I have to have them and I have them in there

Speaker2:

because they support me and they make me accountable.

Speaker2:

I read, I'm sure many people have written this and said this, but when you're on this

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journey, tell people because they're going to ask you about, Hey, we talked about this

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last time. How's it going?

Speaker2:

Just in that they're going to hold you accountable and OK, I'm going to do that.

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I'm going to tell people, I'm going to go into podcast, I'm going to be a podcast

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consultant, even though they had no clue what it meant and and they asked about it.

Speaker2:

And I knew they would, and I had to continue on and I was still energized.

Speaker2:

There was no way I was not going to.

Speaker2:

But knowing those little pieces out there were going to happen made me continue on it,

Speaker2:

probably even faster than I would have.

Speaker3:

And I think that accountability is scary to a lot of people.

Speaker3:

Like once you speak it, it becomes real.

Speaker3:

And you have to have action, right?

Speaker2:

Oh, you do. Right? You're right.

Speaker2:

Exactly. I think that's probably why a lot of people don't, because they don't want to

Speaker2:

have to answer that question because they've he has been three months since I've really

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done anything with it.

Speaker2:

It's embarrassing.

Speaker1:

Here's a here's a thought to people probably listening to this are wondering, Well, who

Speaker1:

are those centers that the influencers who are those mentors?

Speaker1:

Who who would I talk to and who would I have in my life?

Speaker1:

That would be my support team?

Speaker1:

Who is that support team for you?

Speaker1:

Because I think it's going to surprise a lot of people.

Speaker1:

You don't need Warren Buffett to be on your support team.

Speaker1:

I mean, it would be cool, but it's really not the case, is it?

Speaker2:

I tried to make it a variety of people.

Speaker2:

I went to my old sales manager who was there a couple of times at the radio station left,

Speaker2:

but we connected.

Speaker2:

He was the one that hired me initially to the radio station that 15, 20 years ago, and

Speaker2:

I'd always been in contact with him and I trusted his advice and I was very lucky to have

Speaker2:

him. I am very lucky to have him in my life, but I also tried to make that circle of

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people different as well, too.

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That would hold me accountable and somebody I could go to.

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So one gentleman, I'll give a shout out to him.

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His nickname is Don the idea guy.

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And he really pushed me.

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He really gave me some tools to help me look at going it alone differently and tools

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meaning mindset, as well as just applications to buy that you don't have to buy this.

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You could buy, you know, just those things it can.

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You can make your job easier and putting all those things together, it's like, Wow, this,

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this is economically sound, and I'm getting things done fast because of it.

Speaker2:

Ok, so a lot of things came together because I I made that wide circle of friends part of

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my life,

Speaker1:

Kind of the one of the goals that we try to do with clients as we help them on their

Speaker1:

journey or as we get them later in the journey is it's all about the shortcut, right?

Speaker1:

You can go through the school of hard knocks to figure it out.

Speaker1:

But when you've got great mentors and people that will provide that shortcut, whether you

Speaker1:

get it freely or you got to pay for it, that shortcut really, et cetera, it's time time

Speaker1:

timetable to achieve whatever you're trying to go like for you.

Speaker1:

Not only was it to make the jump quicker, but also to get more knowledge quicker, and you

Speaker1:

didn't have to have that 20 years in industry to figure it out, you were able to do that.

Speaker1:

How long did it take you from the time you first started saying, I'm going to moonlight a

Speaker1:

little bit to saying, OK, I'm going on my own,

Speaker2:

I probably a couple of years.

Speaker2:

The big trigger that happened in my mind that solidified that I wanted to get into this

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podcasting industry was a podcasting conference.

Speaker2:

It's called pot. Mass movement, it was in Chicago, and this was the big jump for me, it's

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like, OK, let's go to this conference road trip.

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Yeah, took a while for the kids.

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They had a great time.

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I was there, I we driving back.

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I was on cloud nine the whole time.

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I had never been around so many positive, uplifting, helpful people in my life because

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radio is so negative, so negative backbiting and fighting with radio station versus radio

Speaker2:

station versus radio station.

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And I go there and I'm hearing all these people just love this industry talking to each

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other, giving advice.

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It was the most energetic piece driving home.

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I told my wife, it's like, This is it this?

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I know I need to do this because I love this culture.

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I love what's going on in this industry, and it fulfilled that need of creativity that

Speaker2:

was lacking when I was in radio that that OK, one minute and done, or you're talking to

Speaker2:

sales or you're talking to your clients, I should say, and all you're doing is selling

Speaker2:

air. I guess that's I guess I felt like it was.

Speaker2:

I been there, done that.

Speaker2:

I'm good at it.

Speaker2:

I've got to go on to the next thing

Speaker1:

And there's something else out there.

Speaker2:

Yeah, well, and my wife brought this up to me and I was talking about all the different

Speaker2:

clients I'm working with and all the different categories and all the different topics

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we're talking about. And she says, you remember when we first started dating what your

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goal was, what you wanted to do?

Speaker2:

I said, yeah, on a radio station, she says, you own a radio station now you're working

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with all these different clients that all these different categories and are doing stuff

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differently. You've actually subconsciously working with it, doing radio station kind of

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feel to it. Never thought of it that way.

Speaker1:

Talk about somebody. Hold you accountable.

Speaker1:

Bring it back a black back from the past, from the past.

Speaker2:

That's pretty cool. Exactly.

Speaker2:

So I'd given up that goal a long time ago just because of the monetary thing was like, Oh

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my gosh, it's crept back into my life that I'm actually helping all this audio content to

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in my mind, was a radio station almost.

Speaker3:

And to think way back then you knew you wanted to be an entrepreneur.

Speaker3:

You just didn't understand that journey and exactly where you were going to end up in

Speaker3:

order

Speaker2:

To fulfill that. I didn't have any entrepreneurs in my family, if you would have told me

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10 years ago that this is what I'd be doing today.

Speaker2:

Crazy talk laughed at you.

Speaker2:

It's like, there's no way I don't know how to even start doing this.

Speaker2:

And I I heard somebody give the analogy the other day of, you know, the jump you make

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into these different things that you think it's going to be so big, but it's only that

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little, you know, when you're getting off the airplane, it's that that little gap between

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the plane and the art and the stairway going down like really all it is.

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And but it's big.

Speaker2:

It's big, though still.

Speaker2:

But because I'm encountering that with other things, with my business now too, it's like,

Speaker2:

OK, remember, it's just a little gap.

Speaker2:

It's just a little gap. You can always go back and forth, back and forth.

Speaker1:

And I think what you said, which is really amazing, is that.

Speaker1:

For some reason, a lot of people don't want to see people succeed because they're not

Speaker1:

happy with themselves, so they don't want anybody to be happy.

Speaker1:

So there's the naysayers all the time and it is an amazing thing when you find someone

Speaker1:

who believes in you. You find your support team that says, Hey, you can do this and then

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you get out of your own way and you go to a, you know, it makes fun of the self-help

Speaker1:

things and all those conventions.

Speaker1:

And I was one of those for a long time.

Speaker1:

And then you show up at one eight and you're like, Oh my God, all these people think like

Speaker1:

me, where where has this been my whole life?

Speaker1:

And then all of a sudden, boom, you get that confidence and you get that burst and then

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now you can go to the finish

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Line, right? I read early hurt, early two, and it didn't sink in until I started making

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this journey of just, you've got to get rid of those people.

Speaker2:

They can't be around you because they're not going to help you in the long run.

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They got to go and it's going to be a hard break, but you can't have them in your life.

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You have to find the people that are going to support you, honestly.

Speaker2:

From their heart that and genuinely that when you have a success there, you can see it in

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their eyes. One way to go, congratulations, that is so super.

Speaker1:

Oh, how hard was the breakup of all the people that weren't?

Speaker2:

Not really, because I started having these other people enter my life and taking at my

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time. That's a bad way of saying it, taking up my time, but I let them take, you know?

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You allowed them, allowed them in.

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And therefore I didn't have time for the other people.

Speaker2:

And they they they kind of went on their own way, doing their own thing.

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And I and I don't think it's as hard as need be unless it's somebody that's living with

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you. That's the negative naysayer.

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It's like, Well, get out, right?

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You know, and I'm not advocating divorce or anything like that.

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I think that is something that, you know, if you're married or have a significant other,

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this is something you've got to really have a heart to heart about.

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You know, this is the journey you want to do.

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And if they're not on board, they got to give you time, you know, try to try to at least

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encourage them to like, give me time with this because this is going to make me happy and

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it's going to make you happy too.

Speaker2:

If if I'm happy, you're happy, you know, it should be symbiotic.

Speaker1:

The life is hard and it's a lot harder by yourself, but it certainly is more rewarding

Speaker1:

when you finally figure out what it is that you want to be and what you want to do.

Speaker1:

It's just like the shackles come off of you and you you like you said you want to own a

Speaker1:

radio station, but don't even know what that meant, right?

Speaker1:

You're like, I can't happen.

Speaker1:

That's too far. It was this dream.

Speaker1:

Then all of a sudden, literally you're running an on demand radio station for I don't

Speaker1:

know how many clients they can listen.

Speaker1:

All around the clock, all around the world.

Speaker1:

You're the man in control that that's got to be pretty exciting.

Speaker2:

It is. Yeah, it's that it's that opportunity that you can provide clients an opportunity

Speaker2:

to talk to their audience anytime, anywhere, any device.

Speaker2:

It's a pretty amazing.

Speaker1:

So if I'm if I'm an an entrepreneur and I want to go do a podcast, it seems a little

Speaker1:

overwhelming. At least it was for me.

Speaker1:

And then all of a sudden you bring in the shortcut that might believe in you and you

Speaker1:

believe in them, and then they just coach you through it.

Speaker1:

And from my standpoint, Julie, I think you would agree.

Speaker1:

You've been awesome. I don't have to do any, you know, like we just show up and you make

Speaker1:

it all happen behind the scenes.

Speaker1:

Is it as one of those things where I thought it was this huge chasm we had to jump over

Speaker1:

and reality was just make the step, make the call?

Speaker1:

Is it is it really that easy or is you just giving us TLC?

Speaker2:

There are a lot of things.

Speaker2:

There are a lot of details to it, and I think that's what does stop a lot of podcasters

Speaker2:

from either doing it and or not doing it very well because it's detail oriented.

Speaker2:

As with any content generating opportunity, it just takes time.

Speaker2:

It takes time to get there where it needs to be.

Speaker2:

Podcasting has a bit more intricacies to it than if you don't do it right.

Speaker2:

All of a sudden you're not in the right place, as I was talking with a podcast or last

Speaker2:

night wanting some advice, and they've been doing their podcast for a couple of years

Speaker2:

now, and she mentions that, yeah, we finally we just got on on to Apple, and that should

Speaker2:

have been the first place they were on.

Speaker2:

But they're still two years in.

Speaker2:

I'm not going to tell her. What are you doing?

Speaker2:

You know, their journey is different than anybody else.

Speaker2:

It's just those little things like should have been the first thing you did because you

Speaker2:

might have been happier with downloads and your exposure and such like that.

Speaker2:

But that was their journey, and they're still doing it for two years.

Speaker2:

I can't fault them for, you know, that sort of thing.

Speaker2:

But, you know, bring that bringing that up in regards to the pieces to this and jumping

Speaker2:

in, that was that was a big piece of where I started.

Speaker2:

People didn't even understand, what are you talking about?

Speaker2:

Podcast consultant

Speaker1:

What is what

Speaker2:

Do you what do you what do you mean?

Speaker2:

Well, that initially you're right.

Speaker2:

What is it, podcast number one and a podcast consultant?

Speaker2:

What does that mean?

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And I had to define that as well, too, and I refined and defined over time.

Speaker2:

I mean, I started off in one concept of this, and what I started off five years ago is

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much different than what I'm doing today.

Speaker2:

So you're pivoting big, big time, big time.

Speaker2:

Yeah, it's not

Speaker1:

All the same. Every time, every day.

Speaker1:

No. Well, that's what everybody says.

Speaker1:

Once you do it, it's so easy.

Speaker2:

And I mean, and I guess it would be a pivot point because initially it was looking at at

Speaker2:

working with independent podcasters and helping them generate money against their podcast

Speaker2:

because I was walking out of sales.

Speaker2:

Hey, I know sales.

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And it's the same thing as selling his small radio station, a little podcast that have X

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amount of downloads. We'll go find a very local sponsor should, you know, blah blah blah.

Speaker2:

And that about six months in, I figured, No, I can't do that.

Speaker2:

Independent podcasters are like herding cats.

Speaker2:

They don't want to be found, they can't be found.

Speaker2:

And if you can't find them, an advertiser is not going to find them.

Speaker2:

So it's like, forget about that.

Speaker2:

And I started really looking at my quote unquote book of business, and it's like, I'm

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working with businesses that are wanting to create podcasts and develop podcasts as a

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branding content in their overall strategy.

Speaker2:

It's like, OK, that's what I'm doing right now.

Speaker2:

It's kind of obvious I should have realized what I was doing before.

Speaker2:

It's this is what I'm doing, so run with it.

Speaker1:

This what he's doing for us, right?

Speaker1:

Just making sure. Ok, yeah.

Speaker1:

Sounds awesome. Yeah, like that's what we're doing.

Speaker2:

And my goal is to make it.

Speaker2:

Fun, always and easy to do, because you've got a job to run.

Speaker2:

You've got a business to run, but this is, I understand, an important part of it and I

Speaker2:

want it to be an important part because it's not just coming in recording an episode and

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you're done. It's OK.

Speaker2:

Let's create that episode.

Speaker2:

But what else are you going to do with it?

Speaker2:

What else do you want to do with it?

Speaker2:

What else can we do with it that it's not just one and done?

Speaker2:

That's that's been my big philosophy, and this is just a podcasting can be more than

Speaker2:

that. It can be a lot of things for your overall content generation, for your business or

Speaker2:

life coaching, whatever you want it to be, but make sure it does more than just that.

Speaker2:

Otherwise, it's it's a hamster wheel.

Speaker3:

And what I hear from you is you're holding us accountable now for sure.

Speaker3:

Those of Switch, you've had all those people holding you accountable and now you've

Speaker3:

switched that role into holding everyone like Glenn and I accountable to make sure we're

Speaker3:

successful in this.

Speaker2:

Oh, yeah, I mean, the first thing that when I start working with any business that's

Speaker2:

interested in podcasting is can you lay out a year's worth of content?

Speaker2:

If you cannot lay out a year's worth of content, forget it because you're going to you're

Speaker2:

going to quit in six six episodes.

Speaker2:

You're done, you're done because you're run out of ideas and it's like, now it's become a

Speaker2:

job. This sitting around this table should never feel like a job.

Speaker2:

It can't. Otherwise, you're going to dread coming into the studio.

Speaker2:

You're going to dread opening your mic.

Speaker2:

I want you to be energized like I can't wait to go record.

Speaker2:

That's what that's where it is.

Speaker2:

If you can create that atmosphere, you win every time.

Speaker1:

That's a bold statement.

Speaker1:

Cotton, you know, it's funny listening.

Speaker1:

You talk about what you're what you do and how you do it.

Speaker1:

But listening, you talk on the radio.

Speaker1:

I'm like, This guy is obviously must have been in radio because he's a natural on the mic

Speaker1:

to talk like, do you ever want to get back into the broadcasting side?

Speaker1:

Do you like being behind the scenes and helping people do their thing?

Speaker2:

You know, I would love my dream would be to work with a group of people and my my and

Speaker2:

created a great audio drama.

Speaker2:

Ok, I am an old radio show geek.

Speaker2:

I love the radio shows from the 40s, 50s, even into the 60s.

Speaker2:

The audio dramas, the the the mysteries, the cop shows.

Speaker2:

I love that stuff and I love what podcasting is brought back to life.

Speaker2:

There are tons of great audio dramas now that are using, you know, up to date sound

Speaker2:

effects and great writing, and some of these audio dramas are turning into TV series.

Speaker2:

That's how good this stuff is.

Speaker2:

It's crazy. It's crazy.

Speaker2:

But TV and movies are looking at podcasting as idea generators, and if it's good content,

Speaker2:

you know to cut your teeth in writing and creating in podcasting, you can actually get

Speaker2:

some some contracts signed to move in to bigger and better things.

Speaker2:

And I love that.

Speaker2:

That's what drew me to radio.

Speaker2:

Is that theater of the mind.

Speaker2:

I love that, you know, getting into somebody's head and they're listening to sound

Speaker2:

effects and they're listening to people talking their inflections, and you're right there

Speaker2:

with them,

Speaker3:

Just listening to you. I can hear that passion come out in your voice.

Speaker3:

And I mean, I'm here to watch it, and you can definitely tell that that's exactly what

Speaker3:

you were. I would

Speaker2:

Be doing. I would love to be a part of that.

Speaker2:

I love doing this, though, because you can you can definitely bring that part of it to

Speaker2:

that'd be a dream job kind of just to be a part of that, that atmosphere of that energy,

Speaker2:

of building an audio drama.

Speaker3:

And now that, you know, now that you've spoken out loud, you know someone's going to hold

Speaker3:

you accountable.

Speaker2:

Now we're on the hook.

Speaker1:

Here's a funny thing, too when you're on your entrepreneurial dream and the journey and

Speaker1:

the the dream never ends, the journey doesn't end, it just keeps going and change you.

Speaker1:

But what kind of place are we in a society where before a creative person has

Speaker1:

to go through whatever that training is right there, whatever those scripts are.

Speaker1:

Hopefully they'll get through whoever those people are that gets it up the ladder to,

Speaker1:

Hey, we're going to produce this now.

Speaker1:

Anybody can go out, tap in their creative, creative side to create one of these, you

Speaker1:

know, episodes or whatever, and it's out there for everybody to see.

Speaker1:

It just helps everybody because they're just more content now, and it's not controlled by

Speaker1:

a group. It's open access for everyone.

Speaker1:

How liberating is that for you in this field to believe that you left radio because it

Speaker1:

was all controlled?

Speaker1:

Now, all of a sudden it's all wide open again,

Speaker2:

It's all wide open and the the big lift is on.

Speaker2:

The producers are on the host, the host, the company to get the word out.

Speaker2:

And there are a lot of them out there to be, you know, your bullhorns got to be pretty

Speaker2:

big and continue to talk about your podcast.

Speaker2:

But there are so many easy ways to do it to make sure that you know who your your, your

Speaker2:

avatar, your your, your targeted audience is and make sure you're in front of them all

Speaker2:

the time that you're talking about what they want to hear.

Speaker1:

And you know, it's weird because.

Speaker1:

There's still people want to go.

Speaker1:

I don't know how you are when you go, sit down and watch TV, but there's a certain

Speaker1:

generational thing of sometimes I want to just peruse what's on and select it.

Speaker1:

When I have unlimited to go pull up anything, it's a bit overwhelming.

Speaker1:

It is right. Yeah.

Speaker1:

So there's this balance of trying to figure out how that works, and that's up to the

Speaker1:

individual people doing these podcasts to create something cool that somebody else can

Speaker1:

see and go, You know what? I think I got to put this in a medium that these this group of

Speaker1:

people will want to listen to.

Speaker1:

And I think that's that's kind of what you're trying to do because it's not about having

Speaker1:

the podcast, it's about who gets to listen to it and who it impacts, right?

Speaker1:

Right.

Speaker2:

Making sure you're, you know, in front of that right audience and then you're impacting

Speaker2:

the right audience, the right audience, and you consistently do that that, you know,

Speaker2:

there is a a silent agreement that you've made with your listeners that they are willing

Speaker2:

to give to take 30 minutes of their time to listen to your podcast or 45 or whatever you

Speaker2:

know the length of it is.

Speaker2:

That's a pretty heavy agreement if you think about it, because it's a lot of weight on

Speaker2:

you going, OK, I've got listeners who are automatically downing downloading this episode

Speaker2:

every Monday morning and I have to deliver.

Speaker2:

Every time nailing it, I have to.

Speaker2:

Maybe it's not a homerun every time, but I have to deliver something that they won't

Speaker2:

unsubscribe and that I'm just done.

Speaker2:

I've got a podcast.

Speaker2:

I probably have 40 podcasts that I subscribe to, but I have to go through every once in a

Speaker2:

while going. It's just not delivered anymore for me.

Speaker2:

I'm just just not there.

Speaker2:

Beyond this, some business podcast, some podcasts about podcasting and a lot of audio

Speaker2:

drama. But after a while, you make a choice.

Speaker2:

You just can't listen to it every time.

Speaker2:

And that's on us as podcasters make sure that content is on target and you're continually

Speaker2:

understanding what they need is well, too, and that's that give and take if you can get

Speaker2:

your listeners to participate and give you ideas.

Speaker2:

That's that's the main.

Speaker2:

That's the that's the goal.

Speaker2:

It's hard, though it's really hard because we all like to be anonymous.

Speaker2:

It just kind of listen and never really give any feedback.

Speaker2:

And I would encourage anybody that listens to a podcast.

Speaker2:

I'm guilty, too, but give Give your pod, give your favorite podcast a national, you know.

Speaker2:

Hey, listen, love the episodes.

Speaker2:

Keep up the good work.

Speaker2:

You wouldn't believe how much that means to a podcaster.

Speaker1:

We just looking back for any feedback.

Speaker1:

Give me something it.

Speaker1:

Was it OK? Was it bad?

Speaker1:

Was it good? Yeah.

Speaker1:

Yeah, it seems like the, you know, the medium of of marketing and getting your message

Speaker1:

out to people. You know, it was the traditional advertising and those types of things,

Speaker1:

and it was networking and, you know, sitting down with people personally and having a

Speaker1:

handshake, playing golf, cocktail coffee, whatever.

Speaker1:

I mean, that's still important for those really deep relationships, perhaps.

Speaker1:

But to get them the message out to the masses at what stage in an entrepreneur's career

Speaker1:

it is at the beginning middle, like before they start up, when should they start be

Speaker1:

thinking about that?

Speaker1:

The new way to get followers, the new way to do marketing is through probably a podcast

Speaker1:

or some kind of social media thing.

Speaker1:

When should they start doing that?

Speaker2:

I think at any stage, I think it does hearken back to the if you start, what is your

Speaker2:

message? Can you sustain that message or do you have a game plan that once this set of

Speaker2:

messages are done, you evolve into this and you've evolved into this?

Speaker2:

I have a podcast on my own that I've changed from just me talking into a microphone with

Speaker2:

my thoughts to the very heavy interview based because I found a bunch of people I wanted

Speaker2:

to talk to. And then I went back to a mixture of interview and just me soloing.

Speaker2:

I'd rather I love having someone else on the mic with me.

Speaker2:

I'm really not that great at being solo.

Speaker2:

I just love being around the roundtable or talking to somebody because it's just it's for

Speaker2:

me. It's an easier podcast to do.

Speaker1:

Well, probably, too. It just stimulates the creative juices.

Speaker1:

Nobody likes to just read something.

Speaker1:

It's fun to tap in and get that.

Speaker1:

That realness, I would think,

Speaker2:

Because I always look at it as if I got somebody around the table.

Speaker2:

I'm going to. I'm going to learn from them.

Speaker2:

That's why I brought them on.

Speaker2:

It isn't about when you interview someone, it's not about you.

Speaker2:

It's about them then. But you get to interject and you get to learn as you go along as

Speaker2:

well, too,

Speaker1:

Which isn't that what it's all about having fun and by, God forbid, learn something.

Speaker1:

Yeah, I

Speaker2:

Know who does that.

Speaker1:

Yeah, we know everything.

Speaker1:

Everyone knows everything.

Speaker2:

And that's pretty much my intention when I do listen to at least a business podcast or

Speaker2:

anything has marketing or social media, whatever is, there's got to be one little gem in

Speaker2:

there that you can take away that you would hope.

Speaker2:

And if you start to miss that and those episodes kind of go and go and go and you're just

Speaker2:

not getting those little gems, that's when you start to unsubscribe.

Speaker2:

It's like, OK, there's nothing there.

Speaker2:

That's that's the key is to make sure that there's something there.

Speaker2:

And if you're learning something, your listeners probably are too.

Speaker1:

I think that's probably one of the goals of this podcast is to inspire somebody, an

Speaker1:

entrepreneur who hasn't made that jump to be an entrepreneur, but they've got those

Speaker1:

tendencies right. Either got them where you don't.

Speaker1:

You have them. You're always probably suppressing them.

Speaker1:

But when you believe literally it could happen to make that jump, that's the first step,

Speaker1:

right?

Speaker2:

You got to believe it. Yeah, it surprised me because I'm thinking I'm 50 years old.

Speaker2:

How many more years can do this?

Speaker2:

But I got to think, like, I can do this for as long as I want, honestly.

Speaker2:

And that's that's kind of the goal of those next steps.

Speaker2:

Well, it's not even kind of it is how do I develop this out that I get to do more really

Speaker2:

what I want to do working on the business, then what I'm doing right today?

Speaker2:

What's what's what do I want it to look like in three years versus today?

Speaker2:

And that's that's what I have to look at in this next 12 months.

Speaker1:

A couple of things that I find a minority with with with clients and colleagues and

Speaker1:

whatnot when they make this change to do this.

Speaker1:

Generally, it happens like right now you're giving hope for anybody over 50.

Speaker1:

Technology like anybody over 50, they don't want to learn technology and here you are,

Speaker1:

just nailing it. And it's not easy stuff.

Speaker1:

I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on, but hey, it can happen.

Speaker1:

And it's it's hard to make that change.

Speaker1:

It's hard to believe that you can go learn a whole new thing.

Speaker1:

You were in an industry, you know, for a while, so it wasn't that bad, but it was.

Speaker1:

It's a whole new medium to do what you're doing and then not only to go do that, but then

Speaker1:

to believe that not only can I do this, I'm going to do it.

Speaker1:

And then you just nail it.

Speaker1:

I mean it. It's got to be really an exciting time for you to believe that it happened and

Speaker1:

you could have easily said, No, I'm just going to do this.

Speaker1:

And but on a further note on that, I think it's important to note somebody that is in

Speaker1:

your age demographic.

Speaker1:

When I say that there's like this, you know, over under 50, over 50, when you're over 50,

Speaker1:

generally, you end up with this thing.

Speaker1:

We call industry knowledge wisdom that is way beyond the task.

Speaker1:

It's about just understanding how things work, and you're really not good at doing the

Speaker1:

task anymore. You're good at doing the why.

Speaker2:

Maybe or maybe you don't want to do the

Speaker1:

Task, right? Because you're bored.

Speaker1:

Have you been doing it for 50 years?

Speaker1:

Like, I can't do this again if I have to do try one more case.

Speaker1:

If I got to do one more tax return, if I got to do, you know, interview one more,

Speaker1:

whatever that might be. Yeah, and and you can take that.

Speaker1:

And that's that whole pivot thing we talk about, Julie is is like, you have this thing

Speaker1:

and you're like, Well, I don't want to do that thing.

Speaker1:

What's that other thing I can do?

Speaker1:

And that's where the fun is, because you can be the shortcut for people below.

Speaker1:

You can be their mentor, right?

Speaker1:

And how fun is that? Has that happened with you at all?

Speaker1:

Have you been able to mentor anybody below you?

Speaker2:

Not yet.

Speaker2:

And I do want to do that.

Speaker2:

And right now it's almost a time thing because I am the, you know, the dishwasher all the

Speaker2:

way up to the maitre d with this business.

Speaker2:

And that's where things have to change for me to understand and I know what I have to

Speaker2:

peel off. I know what I have to do, but it's that little gap that I'm afraid to jump

Speaker2:

over. And but that piece of what I need to peel off is what makes me what I am though to

Speaker2:

and why I made the jump into podcasting.

Speaker2:

Because I I've got the full deal here.

Speaker2:

You work with me.

Speaker2:

I can pretty much take care of everything that you need, but I also know I can't do that

Speaker2:

forever. I have to have other independent contractors working with me to to take this off

Speaker2:

my plate so I can build the business even more.

Speaker2:

And I knew there could be a tipping point, and I think in next year's going to be the

Speaker2:

tipping point is like, OK, I have X amount of clients now.

Speaker2:

I don't have the personal time anymore.

Speaker1:

I'll give you a little secret, little little advice that's going on when you when you say

Speaker1:

that you recognize that you need to leverage those relationships to get those things and

Speaker1:

you say it's going to be a year from now.

Speaker1:

Do it now, right?

Speaker2:

Do it now. And what I'm saying is in the next 12 months, it's got to happen because I'm

Speaker2:

looking at it on paper going, I have to.

Speaker2:

I have to.

Speaker1:

It takes a while to, you know, recognize it.

Speaker1:

And and again, it's a lot of entrepreneurs feel like.

Speaker1:

Like, not I want to say a failure, but like I can do that, I can still do that well, you

Speaker1:

can, but does that mean you should?

Speaker1:

Yeah. And right?

Speaker1:

Believe me talking to so many clients over the years and doing it once they release that

Speaker1:

control, trust that process, empower other people, it just exponentially happens so

Speaker1:

quickly. And it is it is joyous.

Speaker1:

It's the most fun you're ever going to have when you give up that control.

Speaker1:

So as you do your journey, you'll find the right time.

Speaker1:

But when you do, it's a really, truly magical moment.

Speaker2:

Yeah, and I keep hearing that from everyone that I've talked about to this and they're

Speaker2:

saying, Make the jump right, go ahead.

Speaker2:

Yeah, do your due diligence and finding the right people to work with you.

Speaker2:

We have to fire them. Ok, whatever.

Speaker2:

But at least you're still a part of the process and eventually you just it's done.

Speaker2:

It's done. You've got the processes in place and you hit button boom, boom, boom.

Speaker2:

And you've got you just found time.

Speaker2:

You made more money per hour because you're not doing those little things anymore.

Speaker1:

And it's funny. It's I don't know, this is always a big thing for entrepreneurs, are you?

Speaker1:

If I were to say, Are you doing this for the money?

Speaker1:

Is that what gets you up in the morning?

Speaker1:

It's a piece of it, because the main thing,

Speaker2:

The main thing. It's not the main thing.

Speaker2:

It's this. I love what we're doing right now.

Speaker2:

At this moment, I have never had more fun in my life than these past five years doing

Speaker2:

this, other than very when I first got into radio and that joy of like, Wow, I I've got

Speaker2:

my broadcast license at that time.

Speaker2:

That was the thing, and I'm on air, even though it's God squad seven, you know, six a.m.

Speaker2:

Speaker2:

I'm the dude.

Speaker2:

And that came back with this.

Speaker1:

So are you suggesting for a fellow entrepreneur that's thinking about it that if you do

Speaker1:

what you love?

Speaker1:

You're going to enjoy life, have fun, and the money will come.

Speaker1:

That sounds so

Speaker2:

Simplistic. It sounds simplistic, doesn't it?

Speaker2:

It's not true. I think the big picture, yes, a percent.

Speaker2:

Got to take care of the dotting the i's and crossing the t's, for sure.

Speaker2:

You know, make sure that you're paying yourself and make sure that you're charging

Speaker2:

enough. And that was a big thing for me, too, is that I'm walking into this world that

Speaker2:

there are at that time, five years ago, maybe five people in the world that call

Speaker2:

themselves a podcast consultant.

Speaker2:

That's crazy. Exactly that.

Speaker2:

That term mostly was called maybe podcast manager, but I didn't like that term.

Speaker2:

The manager made it sound more of a managing the audio and doing this.

Speaker2:

The consultant has a different ringtone.

Speaker2:

That's what I wanted to do.

Speaker2:

I wanted to be that person that we're sitting around and planning and big picture stuff

Speaker2:

because I love Big Picture stuff.

Speaker2:

And then putting the details together of how you get there, because if you don't do it

Speaker2:

right at the beginning, you can never get there to where you might want it because you

Speaker2:

wasted, maybe not wasted you.

Speaker2:

You let some time go by is like, Oh, we hadn't done that a year ago.

Speaker2:

Darn it. And there will always be things that you look back and wish you had done.

Speaker2:

But I thought that consultant piece and then looking at it that way too is like, What do

Speaker2:

I charge? I had no idea.

Speaker2:

It's like, OK, let the market decide if I if it's too much, they're going to say I can't

Speaker2:

right now, but it can do this.

Speaker2:

You take it. I mean, I guess you learn to ever say no.

Speaker1:

So you just do it.

Speaker1:

Are you suggesting that you didn't have it all figured out when you started and

Speaker2:

No clue what I was doing.

Speaker2:

I had again, I had people around me, though, helping me figure this out in regards to and

Speaker2:

giving me the confidence to.

Speaker2:

It took me about two or three years to really know that, yeah, Brett, you know what

Speaker2:

you're doing?

Speaker1:

So you mean it didn't happen overnight, either didn't happen overnight?

Speaker1:

Man, there's just a lot of negative connotations, I suppose.

Speaker1:

So you're saying that you can start before you know, you can do before you know it to

Speaker1:

charge and you're going to do it without knowing how much money you're going to make?

Speaker1:

Yeah, but you're and you're having fun the whole time.

Speaker1:

Yeah, you should. Nobody should ever be an entrepreneur.

Speaker1:

That sounds crazy. Who would do that

Speaker2:

And learn along the way?

Speaker2:

And, you know, learn from those mistakes.

Speaker2:

And hopefully those mistakes don't really kill you, but change.

Speaker2:

Keep changing. Keep changing new ways like, Oh, I should have done that with them.

Speaker2:

And oh, never thought about that when I put the contract together, you know it's OK.

Speaker2:

The world's not going to end.

Speaker2:

Don't do it again.

Speaker1:

Is it a fair statement?

Speaker1:

Because you know what we get to see a lot is it's it's always bigger than you, the

Speaker1:

entrepreneur. It's really never really about you anymore.

Speaker1:

It's about the people you impact.

Speaker1:

It's about the people you empower.

Speaker1:

And it's also about, you know, as you mentor other people to try.

Speaker1:

I don't want to say emulate you, but they can kind of say, Hey, I can you inspire them?

Speaker1:

And you can maybe help the next person achieve their dream because it's not.

Speaker1:

It's not. We're going to go to work and go to a job.

Speaker1:

We're going to go live your absolute perfect life, and it's going to be anarchy the whole

Speaker1:

time. Do you feel like that's kind of a thing?

Speaker2:

Yeah. Trying to control the uncontrollable, I guess.

Speaker2:

Possibly it's impossible, but just control what you can about it because there's a lot of

Speaker2:

moving parts to this.

Speaker2:

And and I'm still learning as well, too, and I constantly want to learn.

Speaker2:

But it's it's that I think realize what you can do and do it and realize what you can't

Speaker2:

do and find somebody else to do it for you, because that's the frustrating point.

Speaker2:

That's where you'll go down a rabbit hole and go, Why am I doing this?

Speaker2:

Find somebody to take care of the website.

Speaker2:

If you can't do a website, get it off your plate.

Speaker1:

Well, I feel like in your journey, that's where you're at.

Speaker1:

You're ready to make those changes so as you're helping other people do it.

Speaker1:

We recognize when I say we mean you recognize it and those are great things to happen.

Speaker1:

Well, I appreciate you coming on the show today, Bret is a pleasure talking with you

Speaker1:

again. It's Bret Johnson Circle 270 media.

Speaker1:

Bret, if you want to give a little plug to email and all those things.

Speaker2:

Website Yeah. My email address podcasts at Circle270Media.com.

Speaker2:

That's my website to circle270Media.com.

Speaker2:

Hopefully, by the time you go there, when you hear this episode, it'll be a brand new

Speaker2:

website. Obviously, that's why I brought it up, and my podcast that I produce about

Speaker2:

podcasting is Note To Future Me.

Speaker2:

You can find that there, and it's on all podcast players.

Speaker1:

Fantastic. Appreciate you having here, and I hope the audience takes at least one nugget

Speaker1:

and come home and think about it and do an action item and join the.

Speaker1:

I don't want to say exclusive, but a very special club of being an entrepreneur.

Speaker1:

This is Glenn Harper and

Speaker3:

Julie Smith,

Speaker3:

Speaker1: And we'll get you the next show.