We welcome Glenn Dunlap, who is the Co-Founder & CEO of Peerview Data, a SaaS firm that specializes in benchmarking and comparative analytics solutions for CPA firms.

And like most entrepreneurs, Glenn runs several companies.

Prior to launching Peerview Data, Dunlap was a Co-Founder and Managing Director of Milestone Advisors, an accounting and advisory firm, where he provided business strategy, corporate finance, and part-time CFO services to emerging market companies.

In 2006, Dunlap also launched Big League Tours, a tour operations business that provides unique, high-end tours to all of the Major League Baseball stadiums. In 2016, the company became an Official Partner of Major League Baseball and now hosts 40+ baseball tours annually. Dunlap started the business out of a passion for the sport, the enjoyment of traveling to baseball venues, and the desire to see all 30 stadiums with his dad & son (which he has completed!).

So what is Glenn’s Peerview Data philosophy when he sees something else has to work better, we have to do a better job?

“This may not work, but…” So I went to some of my former clients and said, you know, hey, this may not work, but…and they went, “Yeah, let’s do it.”

Everybody wants to know how they’re doing versus their competition. That’s what Peerview Data provides. Data can help an entrepreneur to take a moment and reflect. Benchmarks aren’t the “end all be all.” But what can you learn from them, and what data, to compare and learn.

How did he choose the entrepreneur path at Ball State University?

We’re out on the loading dock one day and this guy says, “What are you what are you studying?” And I go, “I don’t know. I haven’t declared yet.” And he goes, “You need to be an entrepreneurship major.” Like, I don’t even know how to spell it! “What are you talking about?” And he said, “Yeah, my wife’s involved in this thing. Go over there right now and declare that as your major.” So I went over there and looked at it and I was like, “Well, this sounds kind of interesting”. And then I signed up for the class. I bought the book, I read it cover to cover the first night. I’d never done that with a school textbook ever, and was I like, “Wow, this is it. This was what I wanted to do.”

Working for the big CPA firms, how and why did you decide to strike out on your own?

What was going through my mind was, if I can sell it for you knuckleheads, I’m going to go sell it for myself. So I literally kind of walked out of that room a little bit bigger and went back to my office and I started calling clients and said, “Hey, if I leave here, would you follow me?” And they followed me.

But he didn’t do this alone. Throughout the process, as he went through, his mid-thirties, he had multiple mentors to guide him, to give him confidence.

Most entrepreneurs have some kind of superpower that basically sets them apart from their competition. What does Glenn consider his to be?

It’s a willingness to ask that stupid question. It served me well when I was working with clients in a consultative situation. Look, maybe I don’t understand this. Help me understand this. And I don’t know your business as well as you, but can you tell me this or can that that I’m having trouble lining that up. Help me make sense of that.

So what is Glenn’s endgame?

I love what I do. You know, I’d be happy doing this the rest of my life. So it’s kind of one of those things when you get asked the question about the endgame, it’s kind of like, does it have to have the end? I don’t want to stop.

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Transcript

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Hello, everybody. Glenn Harper here.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

And Julie Smith.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

For another edition of the Harper Empowering Entrepreneurs

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

podcast. Today we've got a great guest named Glen Dunlap.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Totally cool name, by the way.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

A fellow entrepreneur who of course has multiple companies.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

One is peer view data and analytics, analytics and advisory

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

platform for accounting firms headquarters in Indianapolis,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Indiana. And in his spare time, he runs big league tours

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

four for the Major League Baseball that provides an

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

opportunity to tour the great ballparks and catch a great

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

baseball game at the same time.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Thanks, Glenn, for being part of the show today.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Thank you, Glenn. Thank you, Julie.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Look forward to being with you.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

That's exciting.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You've got two very different businesses, but they have

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

this one thing in common and that would be data.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We do have data involved.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yes, that's right.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I suspect when the movie Moneyball came out, you were

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

jonesing for that, huh?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You're one of those guys?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, it's it's it is fun.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I mean, probably more so from a fan perspective was just

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

kind of fun to see some of the things and sort of see

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

inside baseball even more, which was which was definitely a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

fun thing. But it's it is fun.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And you can combine your loves in different ways, right?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Again, people just don't find joy in numbers.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

But there's some of us out there that just do.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And you're one of those guys.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Apparently, so.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So I've got a I got a all the fans have asked me to ask

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

this question today and and this is a serious question.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

But what tastes better?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

A hotdog in a ballpark or a steak in a classy steakhouse?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I would say that it depends on who you're with.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Gotcha.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think hot dog in a ballpark can be one of the best meals

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

ever. Agreed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, but. But if you're with lousy company, a steak

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

restaurant could be the worst meal ever.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Agreed. Are you a are you a major league baseball fan?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

A football fan or you like chess?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's like, I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Do you like bicycles or elephants?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

That's right. So, yeah, the baseball fan through and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

through. I mean, that's been my favorite sport.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I do love basketball.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Probably is my is my second favorite sport.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But it may be the only sport to watch if I'm serious here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Which is which is another tough season for baseball fans.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Can't they figure it out that people just want to have a get

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

away from it all and just watch a game and not deal with

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

the controversy? How hard is that for these guys to

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

understand?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Well, evidently, very difficult.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Yeah, it seems that way.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So in your spare time, do you like do all that Amazon stat,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

that data?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is that what you study to for fun or is it mostly just the

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

analytical stuff that you do in both of your companies?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, I don't really do too much.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I well, first of all, I'm kind of obsessive compulsive, so

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I don't really I've never allowed myself to do a fantasy

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

team or to do anything like that because I just I know what

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

would happen. It would just be this endless spiral.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I just. I don't even start.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So. So I've never done that for any sport and won't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But I do enjoy taking a look at the look at stats and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

having some fun with that.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Yeah, a man's got to know his limitations, that's for sure.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Well, do you want to share a little bit about what your

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

business is doing? How they do it?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. Yeah. Any.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Any preference in order or.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

No.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Pick whichever one you like.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Well, we're talking let's talk baseball, because I think the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

rest of the time we'll talk about peer.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, you know, several years ago, I went through a program

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

at at our church, which was before I die, I want to and it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

wasn't all about bucket list stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It was also about leaving a legacy and mentoring the poor.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You, too. So it was it was more meaningful stuff than

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Bucket List, but there was a bucket list column of things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And one of those things was I said I wanted to go visit all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

30 stadiums with my dad and my son.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Because when you when you phrase something like Before I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

die, that really puts a different spin on it, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So when I did that, I thought, you know, I'm not going to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

have my dad forever and my son's not going to think I'm

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

cool for much longer, so I better get this done.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I started to look at how I could do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And, you know, this is a common theme for me that I didn't

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like how other people were doing it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I felt like I could build a better mousetrap.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that's kind of what I did.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Nice. So in 2006 launched big league tours and we started

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

providing baseball tours to fans.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And really the premise was I'd gone on group tours before

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and didn't really like it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I was in France with a group tour at my French club in high

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

school, and at 15 they dropped us off at the Louvre and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

said, You've got 2 hours, we'll pick you up right back

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

here. And I'm thinking that even at 15, I'm kind of like 2

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

hours, you know, we could spend days in here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I kept thinking, I'll never do another group tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right now I own a group tour company.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. So the thing is, is that we build in things that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that provide the benefits of being with a group when you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

can't. So we get behind the scenes tours at stadiums.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We sit in great seats, we know where to stay in the cities,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that kind of thing. But we also give you a lot of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

flexibility to go out and do other things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So if you've been to New York a bunch of times, you don't

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

want to be on the same double decker bus tour that you've

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

been on before. So you get a lot of flexibility.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

If you've not been to the 911 Museum or whatever, you can

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

go do those things on your own and we help people out with

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that. But we just try to build in where it's the best to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

take advantage of the tickets, the relationships, the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

knowing where to stay and helping people kind of make those

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

choices.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So is it a is it a standard like tour each one, or do you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

mix it up every year?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We have some pretty common ones.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Our most popular tour is Fenway Park, the Hall of Fame of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Cooperstown, Yankee Stadium and Citi Field.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So that's the one call Hall of Fame tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we can do that package multiple times each year.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So it's it just depends on the on the schedule when the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

teams are in town and how we can set those things up as to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

what our options are.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But we work through those packages and we're going to do

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the East Coast, Mid East, Midwest, West Coast stuff, south

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and Southwest. So those are pretty common.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Isn't it funny? You know, you went on a tour like we all

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

have been on tours and they really just kind of suck.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You're just herd of cattle running through places and you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

don't even get a chance to pause and reflect and look at

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

anything. And and there's that entrepreneurial spirit that

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

just hit you. I said, You know what?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I can do this better.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. And it's it's it's interesting.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I mean, you know, you see.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, like we go through the stadium tours at all the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

different parks where we can.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Sometimes it's good to allow and it certainly has changed

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that. But as you're going through the tour, you get you get

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the security guards that are just pushing people through,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

pushing people through a tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I you know, at first I used to get upset about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then I now ask the security guards and how have you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

worked here? And they'll tell me anywhere from six months

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to 36 years.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so you've seen this a time or two?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Oh, God, yeah, I've seen this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But you know what? This is the first time.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, let's let's let's chill out a little bit.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Let's calm down. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

They kind of forget, you know, I live here every day, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know? So it's kind of one of those where you kind of go,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

let's just let them enjoy this for a second.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, there's the next tour will happen when that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

happens.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Thanks. Lighten up, Francis.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

We got this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. Exactly.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Sweet. Let me talk about your other company.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. So, you know, private data we started seven years ago

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was was actually just sort of born out of my experience in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

in working with entrepreneurial companies.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Most of my career, I've done part time CFO, corporate

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

finance kinds of things, forecasting, modeling, doing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

financial projections and doing business plans, strategic

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

plans, also helping companies with debt and equity

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

placements. And when you're doing that work, you get asked

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the question a lot of times, what do you see other

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

companies like me? How fast are they growing?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

How much are they spending on health insurance and how bad

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

is their turnover? And just think questions that you would

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you would get in besides sort of anecdotal information

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, okay, we've got, you know, however many other clients

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that maybe are in this space, I can kind of answer that and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

kind of come up with some, some things around those things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But, you know, it's always one of the things that just kept

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

in the back of my mind somebody needs to do a better job

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

with this. And I was a user of some of the other apps, but

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I just I didn't like how they were doing it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, as a, for instance, the banks use the RMB, a the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

risk management association stuff and it's, it's great for

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

their purposes, but if you're trying to make it a different

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

business decision off of it, you don't have four line items

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

for the revenue cause net income.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You're not going to change anything based on those four

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

line items. So it doesn't really give you the details to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

dig into their data and to understand it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So that's why it was just kind of one of those things that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I kept saying, somebody needs to do a better job of this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and better job of this. And that's how we how we get

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

started. And there's a phrase that I have I'm not the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

person who originated that somebody else said it, but it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was a phrase that I've just adopted.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that is you have to be willing to say the phrase this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

may not work, but.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. And so I went to some of my former clients and said,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you know, hey, this may not work, but and they went, Yeah,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

let's do it. So 15 we started with professional services

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

companies and ask them, they said, What do you need?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So let me have three or four years of financial data.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So they gave me a balance sheet and so we compiled that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

data and went back to them and they all kind of went, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, if you don't really have 15 or 20 law firms or ad

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

agencies or software development companies in engineering

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

firms, then we don't know how comparable this is.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

If you've got three of each of us said, Well, we don't

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, it may not work, but let's try it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So we did. And we went back to them and all of them said,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Oh, this is great.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We would pay you for this kind of thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You kind of go, Okay, well, maybe we're on to something.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, you know, so we started at kind of a high level like

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that and knew that we would have to start there and then

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

kind of drill into it. But we, we started with, with that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

in mind and then we kind of grew from there.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How big of, you know, different entrepreneurs, different

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

sizes, you know, they just need different services and data

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

and advice and what not, what size company that is your

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

services kind of tailored to is this like a 20 and under

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

employee? This is 100 and under employee.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

This is a $10 million company.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And above, where do you think that sweet spot is?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I think really the sweet spot for most business

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

owners using this kind of data would be, I would say, firms

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that are probably not quite as internally sophisticated,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that they don't have a ton of stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I would say some of the lower end of that spectrum with

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the exception that we see.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So our our clients are CPA firms.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So we're working with firms across the country and we kind

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of went in through different doors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Initially, it was kind of everybody would push us to the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

audit team that, hey, they need analytics for the audit, so

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this could be helpful on the front end.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, so we started working with audit teams there and most

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

audits are going to be larger firms.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So it's not a small firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So are the users inside the firm at that?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Not typically. I would say it's more for the CPA firm using

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it. So we have a lot of data for firms that are 10 million,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

50 million, hundred million and up because of that that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

pathway. What's transitioned is is that as we've gotten

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

more granular in our data, then it started to come where

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

firms that are doing client accounting, advisory services

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

practices, they've connected their clients QuickBooks

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Online files as a for instance.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so now that data is coming in monthly.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so you see $1,000,000 demo practices that are getting

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

data every month from their CPA firm that shows them not

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

only how they're doing or how they did last month, but how

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

did the rest of the profession do and how do I compare to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that? And they can sort that by size or geography by

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

specialty, and start to look at some comparisons from that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

standpoint. So it changes that conversation and I'd say

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

there are different uses for it and we've got people across

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the spectrum using the database.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Sounds weird that you're suggesting that, you know, I could

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

look at somebody else's data and predict my own.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, that's that sounds like poppycock.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is that is that true?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Yeah. Well, you know, let's not dance around it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Let's get right to it. Right. Go right to the pie.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

No, it's a it's an amazing thing.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

They are so busy doing their work that they really never

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

have a lot of time to analyze those things.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And I guess what you're suggesting is that when this goes

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

to the CPAs, the CPAs can have a high level quick

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

conversation, say, hey, by the way, Bob, here's where

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you're stand with firms your size doing this kind of thing.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And this might help you out a little bit.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And it just gives them a chance to maybe pause and reflect

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

and go, oh, wow. Wonder why that's so high, why that's so

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

low, and just see if they're in the range.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Right? Because people just they always want to compare,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

right? Everybody wants to know how they're doing.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

The competition.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. You know, so we part of what motivated me to do this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was, you know, prior to launching Peer Review, I was a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

partner in an outsourced accounting firm in Indianapolis.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But Milestone Advisors, it's it's a transition.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And actually the firm that firm sold to a larger fair

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

amount of Oregon recently or California.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But they when we when I right before I left, we had two or

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

300 companies that we were servicing on a monthly basis

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

where we had 30 employees and we were doing the day in, day

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

out accounting stuff. And one of the things that happened

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was that through the 2008 2009 economic downturn, we would

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

see firms inside the same industry, firms that were killing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it and firms that were being killed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And yet they all used the same language.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, it was from a public perspective, they were all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

saying, you know, that's the new up or 20% down flat and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

working harder and smarter and less to show for it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And all those things that were the, you know, the kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the common sort of public persona phrases that people were

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

using. And my partners and I were all looking at each other

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, this doesn't hold up.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, there are people that are doing really well in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this space. And so we kept saying, you know, there's got to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this is kind of the thing that, you know, there's got to be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

a way for business owners to really understand what's

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

happening in their space rather than it being something

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that's just, you know, all the lies that we tell each other

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

at cocktail parties, how good or bad we think it's going or

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

what we think we're supposed to say when we're when we're

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

out in that space. And so, you know, if you were killing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it, you didn't really want to tell everybody, you're

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

killing it, you're being killed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You also didn't really want to admit that either.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, you know, this was a way to plug in and say, okay, now

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I can at least see with without anybody's sort of public

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

face, there's no varnish on this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

This is just the the data that says that here's how 100

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

other or 250 other companies are doing in my in my

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

vertical. And then I can sort out from that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What does that mean to me?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I don't I don't sit here and profess that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

benchmarks are the best thing in the world and that, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, that you should you should try to mirror those at all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

costs. But as you said, Glenn, they're really a way to kind

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of reflect and say, here's what we're saying.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We can accept that. Here's where we're different maybe why?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What could we learn from that?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And maybe some of those things are things that you would

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

want to change and other things that you wouldn't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, a common thing we see is my my margins are

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

dramatically different.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

My material costs are higher, my labor costs are different.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I've got labor costs below the line versus the things above

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the line in.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so I'm growing really quickly.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But my my net profits are thin.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So are there things that if I understood the cost better,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

what I did differently, what can I learn from that?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it's we can all say that we're our business is so

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

unique that we can't compare to anybody else.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But the reality is, is that there are a lot of ways that we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

can we can compare and learn and and try to figure out, is

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this something I need to do something different about or is

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this just something that versus making a strategic,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

intentional decision to continue down this path?

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

So, Glenn, I want to pivot a little bit and I want to take

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

you back in time.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

When did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur?

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

I've heard a couple of stories and I really love them.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

So I'm hoping I get the same one from you.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think that I know probably early.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I don't know that I necessarily knew early.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But I will I will tell you, I grew up in a really small

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

town in central Indiana, and that's where my parents had

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

grown up. They knew a lot of people.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so my dad, when I was probably.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, fourth grade or something like that took me took

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

me into town and into town.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I mean, there's a lot of people.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So it's a big deal, though.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It is going to town.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

In the town. And we were in a truck and we had a push

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

forward, a gas canister back.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. And so my dad took me around and we stopped and he

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

would say, okay, this is Wayne McMahon.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I went to school with his daughter, Pat, you know, and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, okay, Wayne's yard has been mowed for a couple of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

weeks. You know, come back here and talk to Wayne.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Took me to the next house, said, this is so-and-so,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

so-and-so. There you are.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

He's he's laid up, you know, something?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, you know, come back here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Took me around to I don't remember how many homes, but then

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

he drove me around and showed me different homes, took me

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

back to the first house and dropped me off and said, Do as

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

many of these yards as you can and I'll pick you up the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

last spot at the end of the day.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Fantastic.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Just drop me up. And I was like, okay, you know, so had to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

go up and knock on the door.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

The old guys with the cigars coming to the door to talk to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you and scared the crap out of me.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then I had to sort of size up what I was going to, how

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

long he's going to take me and figure out and then ask them

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to get paid and go back up and ask for the money and go to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the next house and do that all the way around.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I didn't know any of these people from Adam.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

They didn't really know me.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I would explain who my dad was and they would say, Yeah, do

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the yard or not, scram, kid, you know?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so end of the day, he came back.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

How'd you do? You know, and I.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Well, I told him and and then those became that that was

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the start of that. And so that was something that I did all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the way until I went into college and then had to pass that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

on.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So did your does your dad, was he an entrepreneur or did he

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

work for a company or.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You just it's just the opposite of my dad was my dad worked

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

for General Motors, was a committeeman and labor union was

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you know, my dad would work circles around anybody but, you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

know, was was part of the club.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

But from a union standpoint and, you know, I'd always ask

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

him like that, you know, you'll work anybody out.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How can you accept that you got the same raise as the guy

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

that's sleeping over there?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

He's like, that's just that's how it is, you know?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And I'm like, I don't get.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It. Do you think he was probably yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Do you think he probably saw something that he didn't want

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you to go into that and he saw something in you and said,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Hey, I think Glen is going to be a little more self

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

sufficient and going to hustle on his own.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Do you think he saw that or he just was like messing with

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you? Because, you know, dads do that kind of stuff.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

They they never really know where they're coming from.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

They're like spider monkeys, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But yeah, you know, my dad my dad has always worked and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

worked hard. He did the same when he was in junior high in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

high school. And, you know, it was kind of he was second of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

six kids. And I think it was out of necessity for them.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It wasn't quite necessity for us.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But I think he also thought this was a good thing to to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

build work ethic and and just to go after it and to, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, to to start early and to do those things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And if I wasn't doing that, I was baling hay or hoeing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

fields or whatever that it's a farming community so that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the things that you had around in that space.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But, but it really actually taught you early that I've got

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this, this customer and I'm going to take care of them and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

they're expecting me to do this and I need to get paid to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

do this. So I need to ask them for money.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so those were all the things that were kind of early

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

on. And so sort of I know it's that's part of the story, I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

guess, is that, you know, I'm a piano player and I, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, when I was going through high school, I really

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

thought I was going to graduate and move to New York,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Nashville or LA and just try to make it music business.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that was that was all I had my sights on.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And my parents were like, Yeah, you can do that, but we want

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you to get a four year education first and then you can go

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to New York, Nashville, or which that was best advice I've

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

gotten so far. So in college I worked at Cedar Point, which

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

is you guys surely so I worked at Cedar Point a couple of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

summers playing shows, playing piano and shows up there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it was my second summer up there that, you know, you're

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

kind of on break. And all these performers that are singing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and there's a there's a guy there and he's 35 and I'm what,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

1920? And he's teaching school, working at Cedar Point in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the summers and still trying to make it in the music

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

business. And it kind of had one of those moments where I'm

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sitting there looking at this guy like, I don't want to be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that guy. I don't want to be that guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so I went back to school and I was an entrepreneurship

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

major at State and I just went headlong I'd been doing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

major at that point.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I just took the music theory minor that I'd already gotten

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that. Yeah, that's that's something I'll always have.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But it's a heads down entrepreneurship degree from this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

point forward. And not even really thinking I was going to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

be knowing that I would start a business, but just that I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

loved it. How did you pick starting?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How did you start?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How did you go to school for an entrepreneurial degree?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Does that even exist? We have that here.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I don't even know if that existed.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, this is probably what back in the fifties?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Sixties. When did you go to school?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I don't even know.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Any time. I think I saw you in that that one movie,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Hoosiers. Maybe you were playing in the game, and that was

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

in the small town.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

See, Glenn, I prepped you.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I prepped you for this, okay?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

No. Again, I don't even know that was an option, right?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, how did you pick.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

That small town was the small town in Indiana wasn't mine.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So. But I didn't know about it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I didn't know about the entrepreneurship degree.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

When you go to school, then then I don't know when they

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

have you declare now, but back then you had to do a rule of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

11 or rule of nine. You had to finish all of this sort of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

stuff in your first two years and then you declared your

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

major. So somewhere along the way, that was a guy that I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was in a group with at at Ball State.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We're out on the loading dock one day and he says, What are

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you what are you studying? And I go, I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I haven't declared yet. And he goes, You need to be an

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

entrepreneurship major.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Like, I don't even know how to spell it and say, What are

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you talking about? And he said, Yeah, he's my wife's

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

involved in this thing. And he said, Yeah, you go over

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

there and he goes, I got this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You go over there right now and declare that as your major.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I was like, I don't even know what it is.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I went over there and looked at it and I was like, Well,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this sounds kind of interesting.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then I signed up for the class.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I took the intro class, I bought as I bought the book, I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

read it cover to cover the first line.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I'd never done that with a school textbook ever, and was

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, Wow, this is this is it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

This was what I wanted to do.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So that's so literally you must have had this is probably in

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

your genes somehow that you had to be an entrepreneur and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you had to figure out how to get it out of that.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Your dad was trying to get out this guy.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, imagine if somebody said you should be in like, you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

know, Roman art history or something.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, where would you be today?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Think about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Or I would still be outside of the loop, but I would be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

selling those little.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Selling the little guys.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Right. And God forbid you go in and get an accounting

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

degree. That'd be horrible.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I can't imagine what you two turned out to be.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I tell you, the funny story about that is that I.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I absolutely hated accounting when I went through.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You're killing me. I'm sitting right here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Well, I know, I know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But the thing was, was that I'm in.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Show me the big picture first and then I can.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I didn't get that when I went through, you know, your

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

debits and credits and t accounts.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And my whole thing was, oh my God, this is make work, this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

is busy work. I'll hire somebody to do this crap.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I'll never do this in my life.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. Famous last words, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Surprise. But when I went to my when I went through the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

senior class where we had to write a business plan and it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was pass or fail, you got you either got an A and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

graduated, you got an F and had to stick around another

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

year because it didn't they didn't offer the course until

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the spring the next year.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So a lot of pressure on to to get it done.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And when I built the forecast for that, it was kind of like

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I'm saying, wait a minute, this is the balance

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sheet. This this comes from over here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

This is how those are interrelated.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then all of a sudden it became like, well, this makes

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sense to me now. It's like, you know, all the way through.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I hadn't got it because when the when the story problems

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

say, you know, let's say you're a payables clerk inside

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Ford Motor Company, I'm like, I would jump off the highest

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

kill now.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Kill me now.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

If that was I just couldn't I couldn't picture myself doing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it. And then I just I would shut it off.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I'm like not not going to be that guy.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Now, it's funny that accounting now, you know, there is the

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

actual date that has to happen and data entry and whatever.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

But most accounts now it's that's not where your value is.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It's all in interpreting and trying to predict the future.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And again, you're helping with that by having those data

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

analytics to do so.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How does you know, we're I'm always fascinated with

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

entrepreneurs, how they get started and what they're doing,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

how they do it. And and it just your story just is it's

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

amazing, right? It's it's very like everybody else is just

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

a whole different path. But, you know, what do you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

actually, you know, do you have any bad habits that you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

have to support? And that's why you went into an

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

entrepreneur system, because you can't really go and do a

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

real job and get paid a fixed amount.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You have to have that wiggle room to go do your thing and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

have that freedom, I should say, perceived freedom.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

What is it that you know?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

When did you decide that? That's it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I'm not working for the man anymore.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I'm doing my own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. I think it was.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It was, you know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I was at a consulting firm before I left and joined, and we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

launched Milestone Advisors in 2003, and it was when I had

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the fourth managing partner in in the beginning of the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

fourth year that I was there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

The fourth different compensation structure and stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it just was this moving piece.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And candidly, it was they came to me and said, when I when

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I started in this job, it was it was a consulting firm that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was owned by a law firm. So think about late, late

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

nineties. You had all the tech stuff that was going on.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You had all the high growth stuff and dotcom stuff that was

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

crazy, right? And so the law firms had all formed

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

consulting companies because they felt like they were

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

giving up all that revenue.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So this was a consulting company owned by a law firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And when I went to work there, they set my compensation

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

structure up, thinking that 90% of the revenue would come

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

as referrals to me from the law firm and 10% I would need

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to go generate on my own.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And they came to me when the when the fourth managing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

partner started, they came to me and said, hey, we did an

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

analysis of the revenue and you know how much you've

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

generated us? I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And they said, well, you know, we thought it was 9010.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, they go, Well, it sort of is.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But 93% of the revenue you've generated in 7% came from law

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

firms. And so then they go, Yeah, we want we want you to be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the sales guy for the firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I went, Yeah, no.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I don't do sales. I'm not a sales guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I don't want to be, so I don't want me.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But what was going through my mind was, is if I can sell it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

for you knuckleheads, I'm going to go sell it for myself.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I literally kind of walked out of that room a little bit

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

bigger and went back to my office and I started calling

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

clients and said, Hey, if I leave here, would you follow

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

me? And they went and I didn't have a non-compete.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I didn't have anything holding me back.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I went to one of the one of the founders of the firm and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

said, I think it's time for me to go.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I'm going to go do my thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And he was fully supportive of it and helps me help me go.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I think it was kind of one of those where it wasn't so

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

much sticking it to the man kind of stories, but more of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the confidence that it's time.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I was in my mid thirties, I had enough of a network and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

confidence to go do this on my own and felt like I had a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

book of business and I could.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It wasn't quite like sort of taking the safety net out from

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

underneath the high wire, but it was it was enough that I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

felt enough, confident enough.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I would also say this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I had a quick conversation with my wife and she said, Yeah,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think it's time. And I didn't wait for her to change her

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

mind.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

So throughout the process, you know, as you went through,

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

you said your mid thirties, did you have a mentor or anyone

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

that kind of helped, you know, like give you some

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

information to guide you down that you know, you got the

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

confidence from your success, but did you have any, anyone

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

else in your ear that kind of helped guide you that way?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, there were there were a few people.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think when David Millard was one of the founders, he was

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the named partner in the law firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And once one of the partners in the consulting company,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

David, had been on the board of the Small.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I ran the Indianapolis Small Business Development Center,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and so we'd gotten to know each other through that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it was at a lunch that that I went to him to get some

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

career advice and he said, I want you to come to Concord.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I said, I didn't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

This wasn't about me seeking a job for me because I know, I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, but I want you. And then the whole time I was there,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

he gave me an awful lot of confidence in what I was doing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

because I had gone from on a Friday giving my services away

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

at the Small Business Center to on Monday, charging a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

pretty decent fee on an hourly basis.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so that can be a difficult shift.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And he just was right behind me the whole way and just

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

continued to support me.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that was great mentor about about how to firms the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

structure and set up and just kind of how to organize those

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

things and he was he was great from that perspective.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

He was also great with with clients.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

He was just one of those guys that could sit in a room and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

have a conversation with the client and and give them the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

good, the bad, the ugly and just learn from being able to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and the way he handled the client situations.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It's funny when you have when you do work for clients and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you have that relationship with them and they just

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

appreciate what you do and how you do it for them.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You don't realize how much equity that is, right, that

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

they'll follow you anywhere, you know, because they believe

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

in you, because you believed in them and you help them and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you're going they're going to help you.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And it's just a cool thing to have that relationship.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And you mentioned it a little earlier that, you know,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

literally you're working for this other firm, you're still

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

working there, and you call them up and say, hey, if I go,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

will you come? And they're all like, absolutely, we dig

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you. I mean, that had to be a kind of a I don't want to say

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

humbling experience, but just had to be a real like, wow,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

that's that's deep.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, it was. And it was it was quite a kind of time.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I mean, it was it gave you the confidence.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But you also knew then that they're counting on you and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you've got to deliver here in order to maintain these

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

relationships that they're not there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

They may be there because you're there, but they're also

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

going to also, you know, the pressure's on.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

There's no other name behind this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's you. So so you've got to do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, yeah, it's.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

The buck stops there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's good.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Did you how long did it take you on your journey before you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

realise that you couldn't do everything yourself and you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

started implementing a team or strategic relationships and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

things like that? Was that right away or do you wait a

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

little bit and try to struggle through it on your own?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

How that how'd that play out?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. You know, I left and it's really funny because when I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

left, one of the partners at the firm had laid a printout

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of of a of a guy's website.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You remember when we used to print web pages?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Because that was how we expected.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. So there was a printout of a web page of a guy that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

he's like, you know, you ought to get to know this guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so I had already scheduled a meeting with with him, and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

he had just started his own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I was starting my own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And after we met, we kind of, you know, maybe we got to do

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this together because there's you've got a book.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I've got a book. We had some overlap and the things that we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

were doing. But he was a CPA and I'm not.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So we brought some of those things together.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so as we kind of talked about that, we formed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But then we also realized that we both needed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, to to to build some leverage into the model

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

because it was just that roller coaster.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

If you're on your own, your head's down on projects and you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

may. It may be great revenue, but you finish those projects

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and you look up and you go, Oh, crap, there's.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What do I do now?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So we like we've got to we've got to build an entity almost

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

right of way. So we hired two people, a CPA that was a stay

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

at home mom that wanted some some extra hours to be able to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

get get her kids on the bus in the morning and be there

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

when they get it. Got off the bus.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But she didn't want to go back in public accounting, so she

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

came to work for us. And then the guy that had worked for

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

me for a couple of years at the other firm, that was also

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

an entrepreneurship major.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so we hired two people the same day and then just

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

continue to build from there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But it was almost right away.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We recognize that if we don't build leverage into the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

system, it will just be the same size forever.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Do you just magically have all this money that you just hire

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

to people like that on the same day?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, what how does that even happen?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We had we had we had projects that that we were able to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

engage them on right away.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Beth, who started with this on a on a she started hourly,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

part time. So she was only getting paid when she worked.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Bill, the guy that came with me, he said when I left, he

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

said, I don't know what you're going to do, but I'm going

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to I'll go with you, whatever, and just take care of me

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

however you can. So we it was just two people that kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

saw what we're doing and said, you know, yeah, just take

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

care of me, you know? And they did.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And they came in and, you know, we were we were super

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

grateful for folks like that.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You figure as an entrepreneur, like, you probably made that

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

decision sooner than most.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And at that point in time, when you realize that there's

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

people that want to be part of what you're doing and and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

help you achieve what you want as a collective, the whole

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

in yourself, and help them achieve something greater.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, you would have sold a kidney literally to hire

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

somebody at that moment in time because most yeah, most

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

entrepreneurs, they're just like, oh, I can't afford, I

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

can't afford, I can't they never can afford it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So it's sort of like you got to either you got to do it or

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you're just never going to do it. So I applaud you for

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

making that decision. That's a tough decision when you're

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

bank counts negative and you're like, Well, I guess we got

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

to go all in. And a lot of people don't do that.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

If you're listening to this podcast, you know, don't make

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

foolish decisions, but you've got to believe in what you're

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

doing. You've got to believe you got the right people.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And, you know, price is what you pay, values what you get,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

and you've got to make those decisions that will help get

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you to the next level.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, we joke, Glenn, about the about in our in our app

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

we have you can only put in financial statement

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

information, but we have some some survey questions that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

will help you understand, you know, kind of as you're doing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

planning so your advisor can work through this with you.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So you can say, you know, what are your short term like?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What do you expect sales to do over the next year or what

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

do you expect employee employment levels and all these

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

things? Or so?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What are your expectations, your priorities, your concerns?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it's you know, we rarely get entrepreneurs that think

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that the 2 to 3 years is is going to be flat or down.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

That's almost always some level of up.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. And there's some level of optimism that we as

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

entrepreneurs just sort of have to have or otherwise we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

wouldn't do what we do.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Mandatory.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. So I think that was when we launched in 2003.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We thought everything was going to be up into the right.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Well, it's still right and it went there.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Absolutely. It just took a little bit.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

That's right.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Do you have, you know, most entrepreneurs, they have this,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you know, some kind of superpower that basically sets them

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

apart from their competition or everybody else, because

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

it's just they got this shtick that there's this thing.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Did you even have you evaluated yourself and thought about

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

what your superpower is?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is it client communication?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is it risk taking?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is it, you know, concerted effort?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Is it just who you just got some swag?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

What do you think that thing is that separates you?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

That kind of makes you the successful entrepreneur that you

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

are?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think if there's anything, it's a willingness to ask that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

stupid question. It served me well when I was working with

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

clients in a in a consultative situation.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Look, maybe I don't understand this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Help me help me understand this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I don't know your business as well as you, but can you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

tell me this or can that that I'm having trouble lining

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that up. Help me make sense of that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But I do the same thing now with as we're delivering things

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

from a from a software perspective.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I'll sit with clients that are using the app and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

then it's either a round of boardroom or on a zoom call or

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

whatever, and you'll see people's reaction.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I'll go, I know you're thinking about something or help

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

me understand what you're thinking about.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Or That doesn't seem like that sat right with you.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What's what are your what are you thinking about there?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Or how can we make this report better?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What are you thinking about? And it's just those things

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that our best ideas I don't I don't have the sort of.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Right. They're not invented here syndrome.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's like if somebody tells me, you know, I had I had a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

prospect the other day who's becoming a client.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

They've told me they're ready to move forward, but said, I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

think you've solved the problem for the CPA, but I don't

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

think you've solved it for their client yet.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that hurt.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, that was one of those where I was like, oh, what?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I'm like, what do you mean?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so. And so then you have to go.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You can't. You can't get all wrapped up.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

This is you know, they didn't just tell you your baby's

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

ugly. There's something here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So it's like, okay, so help me understand that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What do you mean by that? Let's go.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Let's dig into it. And, you know, I think we've I think as

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

a result of that, our team is about ready to push one of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

our I think one of our best updates to the application that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

as a result of that conversation six months ago and it's it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it took me three months to figure out how to solve that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

problem that but it was one of those where 4:00 in the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

morning I wake up and go, you know, we can do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I'm slack in our team and they're like, Hey, you got to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

stop slacking. It's at 4 a.m.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, welcome. What else is is.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And nobody else works. 24 seven.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Yeah. Come on, everybody.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, that's that's it's it's just listening and asking

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

questions and being willing to just make those changes.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think that's the if there's anything that I would credit

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

our success to.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

What I think I hear you saying, which I think has been a

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

common theme on our podcast, is you used information to

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

provide that you saw the opportunity and you were able to

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

provide the solution. So you didn't see it as you weren't

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

able to do something or a failure.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

We hate that word, but you saw it as an opportunity and you

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

were able then to provide the solution, which I think is

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

amazing. It's a great superpower.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It is. And I think the second thing that you probably did,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

too, is, you know, when you walk into a room, you kind of

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

know what you're talking about.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

But it isn't about that.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It's about learning something.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Right? And you've got to listen to what people want and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

what they need. And as an entrepreneur, your brain's going

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

1000 miles an hour anyway.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

It never shuts off.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And all you're you're just gathering data.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You're just like a combine. Just bring it all in, and then

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you're going to spit out a great product after it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And I think that's what you're doing, right?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, you're listening instead of just talking.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I'm not great at all of those things all the time.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I love product.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I love I think it's I think it's great.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that's one of the challenges is being being the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

inventor, I guess, of the in thinking of of wanting to be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

able to share that story and tell that it's really hard to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sort of set that aside.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And and it's not about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's about the solution for them and how we can help them

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

solve problems. And, you know, it's it's tough.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, you go through all those different selling things

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

about helping people understand how sick they are before

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

they need the solution. Right.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Or how big is the state, the problem.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And nobody likes to be uncomfortable, especially, you know,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

if you start telling people things that you see wrong or

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that you've got to earn that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So there's there's time in that, but it's when you do sort

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of get out of the way and let that take care of itself,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

then it works.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Do you there's a one trick more trick question because I

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

love those. Is there is what's the end game?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Are you like, oh, when I hit 90, I'm going to retire and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you know, I only want to make 100 million or is it going to

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

make 100 billion?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

What's your end game or do you even have one?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I know, I know the answer, but go ahead and we'll try it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, you know. Well, tell me what the answer should be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

first. I mean.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

That's what a good accountant does.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Right. What do you want the answer to be now?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I think the end game generally is there is no end game.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You just you enjoy what you do.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You love what you do. You're helping people.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

The money probably doesn't really matter.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I mean, it's important, but it's not why you do it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And you're helping people.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You have it. You get up in the morning going out there and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

slaying dragons and everybody's thankful for what you do

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

for them. Why would you ever stop?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So the only question really on that point, I'm guessing

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

that's the case. And then if would you ever go into other

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

businesses, you're how far can this business go that you're

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

in these two?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I absolutely agree with everything you just said.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I love what I do.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, I would I'd be happy doing this the rest of my

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

life. So I it's kind of one of those things when when you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

get asked the question about the endgame, it's kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

like, does it have to have the end?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I don't want to stop. But I think the challenge for us in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the software company is that it's sort of an up or out push

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

in software that if you're not continuing to, you see it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

all the time. When somebody builds a lifestyle software

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

company and they stop developing, then they get passed by

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

people that are innovative and they just and all of a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sudden what they have is a lifestyle.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Business is no longer providing them that same lifestyle.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So. So it's it's a it's a growth plan for us.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we're we're looking at the different opportunities that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

we can take there. So we're in the CPA space.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We've got some some announcements that we'll be making

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

later this year that just after the busy season, that will

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

be some some big opportunities for us to continue to expand

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and go deeper and wider in that accounting space.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we'll continue to do that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But there are other users of this data, too, that we have

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

our eyes on that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And just thinking about like, how can we how can we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

transition that? If, you know, today, I would say that our

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

our our mission is to really help CPAs and their clients to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

make better decisions. And if you if you back that up it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

eventually to be that it's really about the business owners

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and their advisors. And it's a broader set that would be of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

people. It could be investors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So private equity, venture capital, angel investors, there

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

are lenders, the bank and non-bank lenders that would be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

interested in having this kind of data to help them make

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

better decisions and be able to pass it on to their clients

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and use in different ways.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So we're looking at some of those other markets, but for

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

now, we know we're here with CPAs for for really a couple

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of reasons. I mean, one, they have a real need for this and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

they.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Also really cool. Cpas are really cool.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And you want to hang with them. I get it.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I understand that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

What else would you want to spend your time?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I can't think of any place better.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So it's right here.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Right there. You know what's funny about what you said is

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

and that's what I love about entrepreneurs, literally.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

You've got these two businesses, they're doing what they

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

do, but you literally have like 12,000 other ideas that are

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

just floating around out there that you need to attack and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

slay. And and as an entrepreneur, the key thing, and I

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

think that's what Glen is saying is, you know, figure out

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

what you're doing, make sure you got that down, and then

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

methodically go through the next steps.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Don't try to do everything at once because you'll never get

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

anything done. You've got to just get the one thing done

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

and just keep moving on.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Would you agree with that? That that that comment?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah. Let me ask you about mentors earlier.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Larry Baker is one of my best mentors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And Larry and I talked about I mean, he made me read The

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Crossing the Chasm, and we had to go through that a lot.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And when you read that, there's the whole comparison.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's the beachhead. You've got to you've got to focus on

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

winning this beachhead.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You've got to win this victory.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then you can focus on the other things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that's the crossing the chasm approach is, is that you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

can't you know, I think they also use the bowling pin

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

analogy that you can't focus on the ten pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You've got to focus on the lead pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And for us, the CPA space is that lead pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And by striking it and striking it well, it will help us to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to get the other pins to fall.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we chose CB's because of the volume of data that's

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

there. But we also chose it because the veracity and volume

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and veracity, when you think about who has the most trusted

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

source of data, and that's one of the challenges with the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

other data sources that are out there.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, they're they're scrambling to get data.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

If you look at some of the places where you can submit your

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

own data to it, I mean, that's that's not not the same.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so we're getting, you know, and we don't want to bolt

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

into accounting applications and just pull in everybody's

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

QuickBooks files because and not to beat up a QuickBooks,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

but it's more about the users of that in that, you know, in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

our firm we were getting called in where nobody had touched

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

their files for two weeks, two months or two years and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

cleaning that stuff up. I don't want that data coming into

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the app. I only want data that CPA firms are, you know,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

through their accounting services or closing the books.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we've got solid data that's coming into the app every

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

month. So so we've very specifically chosen the path to get

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

a large amount of reliable data.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And that's that's really why we're why we started here.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

As an entrepreneur is.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And at this point in your in your journey, is there

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

something you could tell yourself 20 years ago if you just

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

would have done this or if you just would have changed this

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

or just tweak that, you would be in a better position than

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

you are now, whether it's getting some different advice,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

making a decision quicker, hiring, getting a mentor in

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

there, is there something that you're like, man, if I just

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

did that one thing, do you have you have anything like

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

that?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It's interesting. I think for me personally, I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think writing and communicating are two of the toughest

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

things for me. My just having this conversation with my

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

youngest daughter last night about my SAT scores, my math

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

scores, verbal scores were just completely opposite.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I think for me, being able to storytel and do those

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

things I think really well would have suited me really

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

well. From a personal standpoint, from a business

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

standpoint, I think I think stepping back and saying like.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

We talked about the two people that we hired right away, I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

think, in when we launched Milestone Advisors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But I think, you know, looking at your skill sets and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

saying, okay, who else needs to be a part of this founding

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

team? Who else needs to be a part of this to sort of be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

there and believe in this thing and to move forward with

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this? I think that's a that's a really key thing because

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

when you do that hard assessment of your own skills and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

what you have, it's when you launch something like this,

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

it's helpful to have a team of people who are very

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

complementary and skill set and are baptized with their

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

sword out of the water kind of thing that they're ready to

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

charge. Really?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So I think probably the one of the funny things is your

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

first experience of communication, selling or to these old

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

guys that were mad that you were mowing their grass, they

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

didn't want to talk to you anyway, you know?

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And so it probably took a while to get over that, to like,

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

hey, wait a minute, people really do want to talk.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

They don't want to get off my lawn, kid.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So that's probably would be probably is something that was

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

helpful.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, one of the things that I think that I had.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

You know, not so good mentors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Think about the transition now when you think about it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So I spend a lot of time in groups of CPA firms that are

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

talking about the challenge with, you know, working with

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

millennials and how do they handle this workforce and all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

those things. And there's, there's.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

When I started, I'm not 90, but I did start a while ago

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

working. And one of the things with that is that you you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

did whatever the boss told you to do and you did it, and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

you stayed as long as it took, and you did whatever it took

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

to get the job done. And it was just kind of like that was

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the expectation. You went into it a lot.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I think I lived to work in a lot of ways and I think this

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

generation works to live and so there's a whole shift in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that. But the thing that I hear a lot of people doing right

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

now is is sort of sugarcoating it and doing all the stuff

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

that, you know, trying to make it work so nice and pleasing

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and all that stuff. And I, I get it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

I mean, I don't it shouldn't be, you know, you shouldn't

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

have to slug through everything every day.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But the flip side of that is, is that I think people are

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

looking for a challenge.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

They want to be part of something that's bigger.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it's it's not so much that people want to be under the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

thumbscrews that I kind of felt like I grew up in that it

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

was like scared of the boss and not knowing, you know, all

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

those things that they want to be a part of it and they

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

want to be a part of something bigger.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And and, you know, they'll do hard stuff, they'll work and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

they'll accomplish major things.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So, you know, one of the things that happened to us, we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

were doing only annual financial statement analysis going

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

into the pandemic.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

So beginning of 2020, we only had annual stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And when the pandemic hit, things were shutting down.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

The economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

Nobody knew what was going to happen.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And and all of a sudden, at the beginning of March, as the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

wheels are falling off of this stuff, I went, Oh, nobody is

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

going to load anything in and look backwards at 12 3119

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

because they're worried about payroll next week, next

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

month, whatever they don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And so it was kind of what are we going to do to survive?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I came back to our team and said, we have to release a

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

monthly version of our app within the next four weeks.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And the team said, we can't do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I said, Well, then we need to turn off the lights and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

go home and we're done.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And they went, Huh?

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I said, We're we will be at best irrelevant for the

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

next year, if not longer.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And we have to make this transition.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

It was like one of those things where we we had to do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And I said I said, we have to figure this out.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And they all kind of looked at each other and, yeah, we'll

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

do it. And it was one of those things where they they I

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

told them 415 was the deadline.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And you know why, obviously.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But we flipped the switch and released the monthly version

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of our app on April 17, 2020.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And then we went to all of our clients and we said, you

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

know, you're using this with 20% of your of your client

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

base. We're turning it all on for every single one of your

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

clients. We want to be part of the solution, not part of

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the problem. So we're turning it on, use it for the next

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

six months and help your clients get through this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And it was really kind of that transition, but it was also

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

because you go to the team and you go, look, this is part

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

of a bigger thing. This is, you know, this we have to do

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

this and not just for our survival, but also we want to be

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

part of the solution for the CPA firms and their clients

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

and help them through this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And, you know, once they got their heads kind of wrapped

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

around that piece, they they worked tons of hours in and

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

completed things. It was a it was a fantastic effort.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But, you know, I didn't put a foosball table in to make

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

happy for them. Was like, you know, here's here's where we

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

got to go and, you know, let's go together.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

And when we do this, we'll get to the other side and it'll

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

be it'll be good. And that that not only saved us, but in

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

the sense that we still had a viable, relevant product that

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

we could continue to sell.

Glenn Dunlap:

Speaker:

But it's it's enabled our our growth for 21 and 22.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

I think, you know, Glenn and I agree on that same concept.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

Like, you have to be transparent and you have to

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

communicate the why. They have to understand what they're

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

going towards.

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

And once they wrap their head around that, you'd be

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

interested what they're willing to put their head down and

Julie Smith:

Speaker:

do. So I think you you described that exactly to a tee.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

We definitely call that leadership.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And then you lead by example and you just laid it out and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

said, look, if you don't if we don't do this, we're out of

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

business and people would rather work towards something and

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

work for a common goal than just come up and punch the

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

clock so that that's what it's all about.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

So any entrepreneurs listen to this.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

I hope you get a lot of good stuff out of here.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Glenn, I appreciate you taking some time with us today.

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

And I wish you wish you luck on the rest of your day in

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

Indianapolis. And and hopefully we'll get some more snow

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

coming your way, which would be great, because that means

Glenn Harper:

Speaker:

we're going to get it then it's all good.