Glenn Dunlap – Being An Entrepreneur Across Multiple Industries

Glenn Harper:

Hello, everybody. Glenn Harper here.

Julie Smith:

And Julie Smith.

Glenn Harper:

For another edition of the Harper Empowering Entrepreneurs

Glenn Harper:

podcast. Today we've got a great guest named Glen Dunlap.

Glenn Harper:

Totally cool name, by the way.

Glenn Harper:

A fellow entrepreneur who of course has multiple companies.

Glenn Harper:

One is peer view data and analytics, analytics and advisory

Glenn Harper:

platform for accounting firms headquarters in Indianapolis,

Glenn Harper:

Indiana. And in his spare time, he runs big league tours

Glenn Harper:

four for the Major League Baseball that provides an

Glenn Harper:

opportunity to tour the great ballparks and catch a great

Glenn Harper:

baseball game at the same time.

Glenn Harper:

Thanks, Glenn, for being part of the show today.

Glenn Dunlap:

Thank you, Glenn. Thank you, Julie.

Glenn Dunlap:

Look forward to being with you.

Glenn Harper:

That's exciting.

Glenn Harper:

You've got two very different businesses, but they have

Glenn Harper:

this one thing in common and that would be data.

Glenn Dunlap:

We do have data involved.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yes, that's right.

Glenn Harper:

I suspect when the movie Moneyball came out, you were

Glenn Harper:

jonesing for that, huh?

Glenn Harper:

You're one of those guys?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, it's it's it is fun.

Glenn Dunlap:

I mean, probably more so from a fan perspective was just

Glenn Dunlap:

kind of fun to see some of the things and sort of see

Glenn Dunlap:

inside baseball even more, which was which was definitely a

Glenn Dunlap:

fun thing. But it's it is fun.

Glenn Dunlap:

And you can combine your loves in different ways, right?

Glenn Harper:

Again, people just don't find joy in numbers.

Glenn Harper:

But there's some of us out there that just do.

Glenn Harper:

And you're one of those guys.

Glenn Harper:

Apparently, so.

Glenn Harper:

That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

So I've got a I got a all the fans have asked me to ask

Glenn Harper:

this question today and and this is a serious question.

Glenn Harper:

But what tastes better?

Glenn Harper:

A hotdog in a ballpark or a steak in a classy steakhouse?

Glenn Dunlap:

I would say that it depends on who you're with.

Glenn Harper:

Gotcha.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think hot dog in a ballpark can be one of the best meals

Glenn Dunlap:

ever. Agreed.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, but. But if you're with lousy company, a steak

Glenn Dunlap:

restaurant could be the worst meal ever.

Glenn Harper:

Agreed. Are you a are you a major league baseball fan?

Glenn Harper:

A football fan or you like chess?

Glenn Dunlap:

It's like, I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Do you like bicycles or elephants?

Glenn Dunlap:

That's right. So, yeah, the baseball fan through and

Glenn Dunlap:

through. I mean, that's been my favorite sport.

Glenn Dunlap:

I do love basketball.

Glenn Dunlap:

Probably is my is my second favorite sport.

Glenn Dunlap:

But it may be the only sport to watch if I'm serious here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Which is which is another tough season for baseball fans.

Glenn Harper:

Can't they figure it out that people just want to have a get

Glenn Harper:

away from it all and just watch a game and not deal with

Glenn Harper:

the controversy? How hard is that for these guys to

Glenn Harper:

understand?

Glenn Dunlap:

Well, evidently, very difficult.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, it seems that way.

Glenn Harper:

So in your spare time, do you like do all that Amazon stat,

Glenn Harper:

that data?

Glenn Harper:

Is that what you study to for fun or is it mostly just the

Glenn Harper:

analytical stuff that you do in both of your companies?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, I don't really do too much.

Glenn Dunlap:

I well, first of all, I'm kind of obsessive compulsive, so

Glenn Dunlap:

I don't really I've never allowed myself to do a fantasy

Glenn Dunlap:

team or to do anything like that because I just I know what

Glenn Dunlap:

would happen. It would just be this endless spiral.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I just. I don't even start.

Glenn Dunlap:

So. So I've never done that for any sport and won't.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

But I do enjoy taking a look at the look at stats and

Glenn Dunlap:

having some fun with that.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, a man's got to know his limitations, that's for sure.

Glenn Harper:

Well, do you want to share a little bit about what your

Glenn Harper:

business is doing? How they do it?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. Yeah. Any.

Glenn Dunlap:

Any preference in order or.

Glenn Dunlap:

No.

Glenn Harper:

Pick whichever one you like.

Glenn Dunlap:

Well, we're talking let's talk baseball, because I think the

Glenn Dunlap:

rest of the time we'll talk about peer.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, you know, several years ago, I went through a program

Glenn Dunlap:

at at our church, which was before I die, I want to and it

Glenn Dunlap:

wasn't all about bucket list stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

It was also about leaving a legacy and mentoring the poor.

Glenn Dunlap:

You, too. So it was it was more meaningful stuff than

Glenn Dunlap:

Bucket List, but there was a bucket list column of things.

Glenn Dunlap:

And one of those things was I said I wanted to go visit all

Glenn Dunlap:

30 stadiums with my dad and my son.

Glenn Dunlap:

Because when you when you phrase something like Before I

Glenn Dunlap:

die, that really puts a different spin on it, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

So when I did that, I thought, you know, I'm not going to

Glenn Dunlap:

have my dad forever and my son's not going to think I'm

Glenn Dunlap:

cool for much longer, so I better get this done.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I started to look at how I could do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

And, you know, this is a common theme for me that I didn't

Glenn Dunlap:

like how other people were doing it.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I felt like I could build a better mousetrap.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that's kind of what I did.

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

providing baseball tours to fans.

Glenn Dunlap:

And really the premise was I'd gone on group tours before

Glenn Dunlap:

and didn't really like it.

Glenn Dunlap:

I was in France with a group tour at my French club in high

Glenn Dunlap:

school, and at 15 they dropped us off at the Louvre and

Glenn Dunlap:

said, You've got 2 hours, we'll pick you up right back

Glenn Dunlap:

here. And I'm thinking that even at 15, I'm kind of like 2

Glenn Dunlap:

hours, you know, we could spend days in here.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I kept thinking, I'll never do another group tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right now I own a group tour company.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. So the thing is, is that we build in things that

Glenn Dunlap:

that provide the benefits of being with a group when you

Glenn Dunlap:

can't. So we get behind the scenes tours at stadiums.

Glenn Dunlap:

We sit in great seats, we know where to stay in the cities,

Glenn Dunlap:

that kind of thing. But we also give you a lot of

Glenn Dunlap:

flexibility to go out and do other things.

Glenn Dunlap:

So if you've been to New York a bunch of times, you don't

Glenn Dunlap:

want to be on the same double decker bus tour that you've

Glenn Dunlap:

been on before. So you get a lot of flexibility.

Glenn Dunlap:

If you've not been to the 911 Museum or whatever, you can

Glenn Dunlap:

go do those things on your own and we help people out with

Glenn Dunlap:

that. But we just try to build in where it's the best to

Glenn Dunlap:

take advantage of the tickets, the relationships, the

Glenn Dunlap:

knowing where to stay and helping people kind of make those

Glenn Dunlap:

choices.

Glenn Harper:

So is it a is it a standard like tour each one, or do you

Glenn Harper:

mix it up every year?

Glenn Dunlap:

We have some pretty common ones.

Glenn Dunlap:

Our most popular tour is Fenway Park, the Hall of Fame of

Glenn Dunlap:

Cooperstown, Yankee Stadium and Citi Field.

Glenn Dunlap:

So that's the one call Hall of Fame tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we can do that package multiple times each year.

Glenn Dunlap:

So it's it just depends on the on the schedule when the

Glenn Dunlap:

teams are in town and how we can set those things up as to

Glenn Dunlap:

what our options are.

Glenn Dunlap:

But we work through those packages and we're going to do

Glenn Dunlap:

the East Coast, Mid East, Midwest, West Coast stuff, south

Glenn Dunlap:

and Southwest. So those are pretty common.

Glenn Harper:

Isn't it funny? You know, you went on a tour like we all

Glenn Harper:

have been on tours and they really just kind of suck.

Glenn Harper:

You're just herd of cattle running through places and you

Glenn Harper:

don't even get a chance to pause and reflect and look at

Glenn Harper:

anything. And and there's that entrepreneurial spirit that

Glenn Harper:

just hit you. I said, You know what?

Glenn Harper:

I can do this better.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. And it's it's it's interesting.

Glenn Dunlap:

I mean, you know, you see.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, like we go through the stadium tours at all the

Glenn Dunlap:

different parks where we can.

Glenn Dunlap:

Sometimes it's good to allow and it certainly has changed

Glenn Dunlap:

that. But as you're going through the tour, you get you get

Glenn Dunlap:

the security guards that are just pushing people through,

Glenn Dunlap:

pushing people through a tour.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I you know, at first I used to get upset about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

And then I now ask the security guards and how have you

Glenn Dunlap:

worked here? And they'll tell me anywhere from six months

Glenn Dunlap:

to 36 years.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so you've seen this a time or two?

Glenn Dunlap:

Oh, God, yeah, I've seen this.

Glenn Dunlap:

But you know what? This is the first time.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, let's let's let's chill out a little bit.

Glenn Dunlap:

Let's calm down. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

Glenn Dunlap:

They kind of forget, you know, I live here every day, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know? So it's kind of one of those where you kind of go,

Glenn Dunlap:

let's just let them enjoy this for a second.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, there's the next tour will happen when that

Glenn Dunlap:

happens.

Glenn Harper:

Thanks. Lighten up, Francis.

Glenn Harper:

We got this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. Exactly.

Glenn Harper:

Sweet. Let me talk about your other company.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. So, you know, private data we started seven years ago

Glenn Dunlap:

was was actually just sort of born out of my experience in

Glenn Dunlap:

in working with entrepreneurial companies.

Glenn Dunlap:

Most of my career, I've done part time CFO, corporate

Glenn Dunlap:

finance kinds of things, forecasting, modeling, doing

Glenn Dunlap:

financial projections and doing business plans, strategic

Glenn Dunlap:

plans, also helping companies with debt and equity

Glenn Dunlap:

placements. And when you're doing that work, you get asked

Glenn Dunlap:

the question a lot of times, what do you see other

Glenn Dunlap:

companies like me? How fast are they growing?

Glenn Dunlap:

How much are they spending on health insurance and how bad

Glenn Dunlap:

is their turnover? And just think questions that you would

Glenn Dunlap:

you would get in besides sort of anecdotal information

Glenn Dunlap:

like, okay, we've got, you know, however many other clients

Glenn Dunlap:

that maybe are in this space, I can kind of answer that and

Glenn Dunlap:

kind of come up with some, some things around those things.

Glenn Dunlap:

But, you know, it's always one of the things that just kept

Glenn Dunlap:

in the back of my mind somebody needs to do a better job

Glenn Dunlap:

with this. And I was a user of some of the other apps, but

Glenn Dunlap:

I just I didn't like how they were doing it.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, as a, for instance, the banks use the RMB, a the

Glenn Dunlap:

risk management association stuff and it's, it's great for

Glenn Dunlap:

their purposes, but if you're trying to make it a different

Glenn Dunlap:

business decision off of it, you don't have four line items

Glenn Dunlap:

for the revenue cause net income.

Glenn Dunlap:

You're not going to change anything based on those four

Glenn Dunlap:

line items. So it doesn't really give you the details to

Glenn Dunlap:

dig into their data and to understand it.

Glenn Dunlap:

So that's why it was just kind of one of those things that

Glenn Dunlap:

I kept saying, somebody needs to do a better job of this

Glenn Dunlap:

and better job of this. And that's how we how we get

Glenn Dunlap:

started. And there's a phrase that I have I'm not the

Glenn Dunlap:

person who originated that somebody else said it, but it

Glenn Dunlap:

was a phrase that I've just adopted.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that is you have to be willing to say the phrase this

Glenn Dunlap:

may not work, but.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. And so I went to some of my former clients and said,

Glenn Dunlap:

you know, hey, this may not work, but and they went, Yeah,

Glenn Dunlap:

let's do it. So 15 we started with professional services

Glenn Dunlap:

companies and ask them, they said, What do you need?

Glenn Dunlap:

So let me have three or four years of financial data.

Glenn Dunlap:

So they gave me a balance sheet and so we compiled that

Glenn Dunlap:

data and went back to them and they all kind of went, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know, if you don't really have 15 or 20 law firms or ad

Glenn Dunlap:

agencies or software development companies in engineering

Glenn Dunlap:

firms, then we don't know how comparable this is.

Glenn Dunlap:

If you've got three of each of us said, Well, we don't

Glenn Dunlap:

know, it may not work, but let's try it.

Glenn Dunlap:

So we did. And we went back to them and all of them said,

Glenn Dunlap:

Oh, this is great.

Glenn Dunlap:

We would pay you for this kind of thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

You kind of go, Okay, well, maybe we're on to something.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, you know, so we started at kind of a high level like

Glenn Dunlap:

that and knew that we would have to start there and then

Glenn Dunlap:

kind of drill into it. But we, we started with, with that

Glenn Dunlap:

in mind and then we kind of grew from there.

Glenn Harper:

How big of, you know, different entrepreneurs, different

Glenn Harper:

sizes, you know, they just need different services and data

Glenn Harper:

and advice and what not, what size company that is your

Glenn Harper:

services kind of tailored to is this like a 20 and under

Glenn Harper:

employee? This is 100 and under employee.

Glenn Harper:

This is a $10 million company.

Glenn Harper:

And above, where do you think that sweet spot is?

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I think really the sweet spot for most business

Glenn Dunlap:

owners using this kind of data would be, I would say, firms

Glenn Dunlap:

that are probably not quite as internally sophisticated,

Glenn Dunlap:

that they don't have a ton of stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I would say some of the lower end of that spectrum with

Glenn Dunlap:

the exception that we see.

Glenn Dunlap:

So our our clients are CPA firms.

Glenn Dunlap:

So we're working with firms across the country and we kind

Glenn Dunlap:

of went in through different doors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Initially, it was kind of everybody would push us to the

Glenn Dunlap:

audit team that, hey, they need analytics for the audit, so

Glenn Dunlap:

this could be helpful on the front end.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, so we started working with audit teams there and most

Glenn Dunlap:

audits are going to be larger firms.

Glenn Dunlap:

So it's not a small firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

So are the users inside the firm at that?

Glenn Dunlap:

Not typically. I would say it's more for the CPA firm using

Glenn Dunlap:

it. So we have a lot of data for firms that are 10 million,

Glenn Dunlap:

50 million, hundred million and up because of that that

Glenn Dunlap:

pathway. What's transitioned is is that as we've gotten

Glenn Dunlap:

more granular in our data, then it started to come where

Glenn Dunlap:

firms that are doing client accounting, advisory services

Glenn Dunlap:

practices, they've connected their clients QuickBooks

Glenn Dunlap:

Online files as a for instance.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so now that data is coming in monthly.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so you see $1,000,000 demo practices that are getting

Glenn Dunlap:

data every month from their CPA firm that shows them not

Glenn Dunlap:

only how they're doing or how they did last month, but how

Glenn Dunlap:

did the rest of the profession do and how do I compare to

Glenn Dunlap:

that? And they can sort that by size or geography by

Glenn Dunlap:

specialty, and start to look at some comparisons from that

Glenn Dunlap:

standpoint. So it changes that conversation and I'd say

Glenn Dunlap:

there are different uses for it and we've got people across

Glenn Dunlap:

the spectrum using the database.

Glenn Harper:

Sounds weird that you're suggesting that, you know, I could

Glenn Harper:

look at somebody else's data and predict my own.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, that's that sounds like poppycock.

Glenn Harper:

Is that is that true?

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. Well, you know, let's not dance around it.

Glenn Harper:

Let's get right to it. Right. Go right to the pie.

Glenn Harper:

No, it's a it's an amazing thing.

Glenn Harper:

You know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs.

Glenn Harper:

They are so busy doing their work that they really never

Glenn Harper:

have a lot of time to analyze those things.

Glenn Harper:

And I guess what you're suggesting is that when this goes

Glenn Harper:

to the CPAs, the CPAs can have a high level quick

Glenn Harper:

conversation, say, hey, by the way, Bob, here's where

Glenn Harper:

you're stand with firms your size doing this kind of thing.

Glenn Harper:

And this might help you out a little bit.

Glenn Harper:

And it just gives them a chance to maybe pause and reflect

Glenn Harper:

and go, oh, wow. Wonder why that's so high, why that's so

Glenn Harper:

low, and just see if they're in the range.

Glenn Harper:

Right? Because people just they always want to compare,

Glenn Harper:

right? Everybody wants to know how they're doing.

Glenn Harper:

The competition.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. You know, so we part of what motivated me to do this

Glenn Dunlap:

was, you know, prior to launching Peer Review, I was a

Glenn Dunlap:

partner in an outsourced accounting firm in Indianapolis.

Glenn Dunlap:

But Milestone Advisors, it's it's a transition.

Glenn Dunlap:

And actually the firm that firm sold to a larger fair

Glenn Dunlap:

amount of Oregon recently or California.

Glenn Dunlap:

But they when we when I right before I left, we had two or

Glenn Dunlap:

300 companies that we were servicing on a monthly basis

Glenn Dunlap:

where we had 30 employees and we were doing the day in, day

Glenn Dunlap:

out accounting stuff. And one of the things that happened

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

see firms inside the same industry, firms that were killing

Glenn Dunlap:

it and firms that were being killed.

Glenn Dunlap:

And yet they all used the same language.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, it was from a public perspective, they were all

Glenn Dunlap:

saying, you know, that's the new up or 20% down flat and

Glenn Dunlap:

working harder and smarter and less to show for it.

Glenn Dunlap:

And all those things that were the, you know, the kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

the common sort of public persona phrases that people were

Glenn Dunlap:

using. And my partners and I were all looking at each other

Glenn Dunlap:

like, this doesn't hold up.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, there are people that are doing really well in

Glenn Dunlap:

this space. And so we kept saying, you know, there's got to

Glenn Dunlap:

this is kind of the thing that, you know, there's got to be

Glenn Dunlap:

a way for business owners to really understand what's

Glenn Dunlap:

happening in their space rather than it being something

Glenn Dunlap:

that's just, you know, all the lies that we tell each other

Glenn Dunlap:

at cocktail parties, how good or bad we think it's going or

Glenn Dunlap:

what we think we're supposed to say when we're when we're

Glenn Dunlap:

out in that space. And so, you know, if you were killing

Glenn Dunlap:

it, you didn't really want to tell everybody, you're

Glenn Dunlap:

killing it, you're being killed.

Glenn Dunlap:

You also didn't really want to admit that either.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, you know, this was a way to plug in and say, okay, now

Glenn Dunlap:

I can at least see with without anybody's sort of public

Glenn Dunlap:

face, there's no varnish on this.

Glenn Dunlap:

This is just the the data that says that here's how 100

Glenn Dunlap:

other or 250 other companies are doing in my in my

Glenn Dunlap:

vertical. And then I can sort out from that.

Glenn Dunlap:

What does that mean to me?

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I don't I don't sit here and profess that

Glenn Dunlap:

benchmarks are the best thing in the world and that, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know, that you should you should try to mirror those at all

Glenn Dunlap:

costs. But as you said, Glenn, they're really a way to kind

Glenn Dunlap:

of reflect and say, here's what we're saying.

Glenn Dunlap:

We can accept that. Here's where we're different maybe why?

Glenn Dunlap:

What could we learn from that?

Glenn Dunlap:

And maybe some of those things are things that you would

Glenn Dunlap:

want to change and other things that you wouldn't.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, a common thing we see is my my margins are

Glenn Dunlap:

dramatically different.

Glenn Dunlap:

My material costs are higher, my labor costs are different.

Glenn Dunlap:

I've got labor costs below the line versus the things above

Glenn Dunlap:

the line in.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so I'm growing really quickly.

Glenn Dunlap:

But my my net profits are thin.

Glenn Dunlap:

So are there things that if I understood the cost better,

Glenn Dunlap:

what I did differently, what can I learn from that?

Glenn Dunlap:

And it's we can all say that we're our business is so

Glenn Dunlap:

unique that we can't compare to anybody else.

Glenn Dunlap:

But the reality is, is that there are a lot of ways that we

Glenn Dunlap:

can we can compare and learn and and try to figure out, is

Glenn Dunlap:

this something I need to do something different about or is

Glenn Dunlap:

this just something that versus making a strategic,

Glenn Dunlap:

intentional decision to continue down this path?

Julie Smith:

So, Glenn, I want to pivot a little bit and I want to take

Julie Smith:

you back in time.

Julie Smith:

When did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur?

Julie Smith:

I've heard a couple of stories and I really love them.

Julie Smith:

So I'm hoping I get the same one from you.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think that I know probably early.

Glenn Dunlap:

I don't know that I necessarily knew early.

Glenn Dunlap:

But I will I will tell you, I grew up in a really small

Glenn Dunlap:

town in central Indiana, and that's where my parents had

Glenn Dunlap:

grown up. They knew a lot of people.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so my dad, when I was probably.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, fourth grade or something like that took me took

Glenn Dunlap:

me into town and into town.

Glenn Dunlap:

I mean, there's a lot of people.

Glenn Harper:

So it's a big deal, though.

Glenn Harper:

It is going to town.

Glenn Dunlap:

In the town. And we were in a truck and we had a push

Glenn Dunlap:

forward, a gas canister back.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. And so my dad took me around and we stopped and he

Glenn Dunlap:

would say, okay, this is Wayne McMahon.

Glenn Dunlap:

I went to school with his daughter, Pat, you know, and

Glenn Dunlap:

like, okay, Wayne's yard has been mowed for a couple of

Glenn Dunlap:

weeks. You know, come back here and talk to Wayne.

Glenn Dunlap:

Took me to the next house, said, this is so-and-so,

Glenn Dunlap:

so-and-so. There you are.

Glenn Dunlap:

He's he's laid up, you know, something?

Glenn Dunlap:

So, you know, come back here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Took me around to I don't remember how many homes, but then

Glenn Dunlap:

he drove me around and showed me different homes, took me

Glenn Dunlap:

back to the first house and dropped me off and said, Do as

Glenn Dunlap:

many of these yards as you can and I'll pick you up the

Glenn Dunlap:

last spot at the end of the day.

Glenn Harper:

Fantastic.

Glenn Dunlap:

Just drop me up. And I was like, okay, you know, so had to

Glenn Dunlap:

go up and knock on the door.

Glenn Dunlap:

The old guys with the cigars coming to the door to talk to

Glenn Dunlap:

you and scared the crap out of me.

Glenn Dunlap:

And then I had to sort of size up what I was going to, how

Glenn Dunlap:

long he's going to take me and figure out and then ask them

Glenn Dunlap:

to get paid and go back up and ask for the money and go to

Glenn Dunlap:

the next house and do that all the way around.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I didn't know any of these people from Adam.

Glenn Dunlap:

They didn't really know me.

Glenn Dunlap:

I would explain who my dad was and they would say, Yeah, do

Glenn Dunlap:

the yard or not, scram, kid, you know?

Glenn Dunlap:

And so end of the day, he came back.

Glenn Dunlap:

How'd you do? You know, and I.

Glenn Dunlap:

Well, I told him and and then those became that that was

Glenn Dunlap:

the start of that. And so that was something that I did all

Glenn Dunlap:

the way until I went into college and then had to pass that

Glenn Dunlap:

on.

Glenn Harper:

So did your does your dad, was he an entrepreneur or did he

Glenn Harper:

work for a company or.

Glenn Harper:

You just it's just the opposite of my dad was my dad worked

Glenn Harper:

for General Motors, was a committeeman and labor union was

Glenn Harper:

you know, my dad would work circles around anybody but, you

Glenn Harper:

know, was was part of the club.

Glenn Harper:

But from a union standpoint and, you know, I'd always ask

Glenn Harper:

him like that, you know, you'll work anybody out.

Glenn Harper:

How can you accept that you got the same raise as the guy

Glenn Harper:

that's sleeping over there?

Glenn Harper:

He's like, that's just that's how it is, you know?

Glenn Harper:

And I'm like, I don't get.

Glenn Harper:

It. Do you think he was probably yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Do you think he probably saw something that he didn't want

Glenn Harper:

you to go into that and he saw something in you and said,

Glenn Harper:

Hey, I think Glen is going to be a little more self

Glenn Harper:

sufficient and going to hustle on his own.

Glenn Harper:

Do you think he saw that or he just was like messing with

Glenn Harper:

you? Because, you know, dads do that kind of stuff.

Glenn Harper:

They they never really know where they're coming from.

Glenn Harper:

They're like spider monkeys, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

But yeah, you know, my dad my dad has always worked and

Glenn Dunlap:

worked hard. He did the same when he was in junior high in

Glenn Dunlap:

high school. And, you know, it was kind of he was second of

Glenn Dunlap:

six kids. And I think it was out of necessity for them.

Glenn Dunlap:

It wasn't quite necessity for us.

Glenn Dunlap:

But I think he also thought this was a good thing to to

Glenn Dunlap:

build work ethic and and just to go after it and to, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know, to to start early and to do those things.

Glenn Dunlap:

And if I wasn't doing that, I was baling hay or hoeing

Glenn Dunlap:

fields or whatever that it's a farming community so that

Glenn Dunlap:

the things that you had around in that space.

Glenn Dunlap:

But, but it really actually taught you early that I've got

Glenn Dunlap:

this, this customer and I'm going to take care of them and

Glenn Dunlap:

they're expecting me to do this and I need to get paid to

Glenn Dunlap:

do this. So I need to ask them for money.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so those were all the things that were kind of early

Glenn Dunlap:

on. And so sort of I know it's that's part of the story, I

Glenn Dunlap:

guess, is that, you know, I'm a piano player and I, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know, when I was going through high school, I really

Glenn Dunlap:

thought I was going to graduate and move to New York,

Glenn Dunlap:

Nashville or LA and just try to make it music business.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that was that was all I had my sights on.

Glenn Dunlap:

And my parents were like, Yeah, you can do that, but we want

Glenn Dunlap:

you to get a four year education first and then you can go

Glenn Dunlap:

to New York, Nashville, or which that was best advice I've

Glenn Dunlap:

gotten so far. So in college I worked at Cedar Point, which

Glenn Dunlap:

is you guys surely so I worked at Cedar Point a couple of

Glenn Dunlap:

summers playing shows, playing piano and shows up there.

Glenn Dunlap:

And it was my second summer up there that, you know, you're

Glenn Dunlap:

kind of on break. And all these performers that are singing

Glenn Dunlap:

and there's a there's a guy there and he's 35 and I'm what,

Glenn Dunlap:

1920? And he's teaching school, working at Cedar Point in

Glenn Dunlap:

the summers and still trying to make it in the music

Glenn Dunlap:

business. And it kind of had one of those moments where I'm

Glenn Dunlap:

sitting there looking at this guy like, I don't want to be

Glenn Dunlap:

that guy. I don't want to be that guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so I went back to school and I was an entrepreneurship

Glenn Dunlap:

major at State and I just went headlong I'd been doing

Glenn Dunlap:

major at that point.

Glenn Dunlap:

I just took the music theory minor that I'd already gotten

Glenn Dunlap:

that. Yeah, that's that's something I'll always have.

Glenn Dunlap:

But it's a heads down entrepreneurship degree from this

Glenn Dunlap:

point forward. And not even really thinking I was going to

Glenn Dunlap:

be knowing that I would start a business, but just that I

Glenn Dunlap:

loved it. How did you pick starting?

Glenn Harper:

How did you start?

Glenn Harper:

How did you go to school for an entrepreneurial degree?

Glenn Harper:

Does that even exist? We have that here.

Glenn Harper:

I don't even know if that existed.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, this is probably what back in the fifties?

Glenn Harper:

Sixties. When did you go to school?

Glenn Harper:

I don't even know.

Julie Smith:

Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

Any time. I think I saw you in that that one movie,

Glenn Harper:

Hoosiers. Maybe you were playing in the game, and that was

Glenn Harper:

in the small town.

Glenn Dunlap:

See, Glenn, I prepped you.

Glenn Dunlap:

I prepped you for this, okay?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

No. Again, I don't even know that was an option, right?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, how did you pick.

Glenn Dunlap:

That small town was the small town in Indiana wasn't mine.

Glenn Dunlap:

So. But I didn't know about it.

Glenn Dunlap:

I didn't know about the entrepreneurship degree.

Glenn Dunlap:

When you go to school, then then I don't know when they

Glenn Dunlap:

have you declare now, but back then you had to do a rule of

Glenn Dunlap:

11 or rule of nine. You had to finish all of this sort of

Glenn Dunlap:

stuff in your first two years and then you declared your

Glenn Dunlap:

major. So somewhere along the way, that was a guy that I

Glenn Dunlap:

was in a group with at at Ball State.

Glenn Dunlap:

We're out on the loading dock one day and he says, What are

Glenn Dunlap:

you what are you studying? And I go, I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

I haven't declared yet. And he goes, You need to be an

Glenn Dunlap:

entrepreneurship major.

Glenn Dunlap:

Like, I don't even know how to spell it and say, What are

Glenn Dunlap:

you talking about? And he said, Yeah, he's my wife's

Glenn Dunlap:

involved in this thing. And he said, Yeah, you go over

Glenn Dunlap:

there and he goes, I got this.

Glenn Dunlap:

You go over there right now and declare that as your major.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I was like, I don't even know what it is.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I went over there and looked at it and I was like, Well,

Glenn Dunlap:

this sounds kind of interesting.

Glenn Dunlap:

And then I signed up for the class.

Glenn Dunlap:

I took the intro class, I bought as I bought the book, I

Glenn Dunlap:

read it cover to cover the first line.

Glenn Dunlap:

I'd never done that with a school textbook ever, and was

Glenn Dunlap:

like, Wow, this is this is it.

Glenn Dunlap:

This was what I wanted to do.

Glenn Harper:

So that's so literally you must have had this is probably in

Glenn Harper:

your genes somehow that you had to be an entrepreneur and

Glenn Harper:

you had to figure out how to get it out of that.

Glenn Harper:

Your dad was trying to get out this guy.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, imagine if somebody said you should be in like, you

Glenn Harper:

know, Roman art history or something.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, where would you be today?

Glenn Harper:

Think about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Glenn Dunlap:

Or I would still be outside of the loop, but I would be

Glenn Dunlap:

selling those little.

Glenn Harper:

Selling the little guys.

Glenn Harper:

Right. And God forbid you go in and get an accounting

Glenn Harper:

degree. That'd be horrible.

Glenn Harper:

I can't imagine what you two turned out to be.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I tell you, the funny story about that is that I.

Glenn Dunlap:

I absolutely hated accounting when I went through.

Glenn Harper:

You're killing me. I'm sitting right here.

Glenn Dunlap:

Well, I know, I know.

Glenn Dunlap:

But the thing was, was that I'm in.

Glenn Dunlap:

Show me the big picture first and then I can.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I didn't get that when I went through, you know, your

Glenn Dunlap:

debits and credits and t accounts.

Glenn Dunlap:

And my whole thing was, oh my God, this is make work, this

Glenn Dunlap:

is busy work. I'll hire somebody to do this crap.

Glenn Dunlap:

I'll never do this in my life.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. Famous last words, right?

Glenn Dunlap:

Surprise. But when I went to my when I went through the

Glenn Dunlap:

senior class where we had to write a business plan and it

Glenn Dunlap:

was pass or fail, you got you either got an A and

Glenn Dunlap:

graduated, you got an F and had to stick around another

Glenn Dunlap:

year because it didn't they didn't offer the course until

Glenn Dunlap:

the spring the next year.

Glenn Dunlap:

So a lot of pressure on to to get it done.

Glenn Dunlap:

And when I built the forecast for that, it was kind of like

Glenn Dunlap:

income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I'm saying, wait a minute, this is the balance

Glenn Dunlap:

sheet. This this comes from over here.

Glenn Dunlap:

This is how those are interrelated.

Glenn Dunlap:

And then all of a sudden it became like, well, this makes

Glenn Dunlap:

sense to me now. It's like, you know, all the way through.

Glenn Dunlap:

I hadn't got it because when the when the story problems

Glenn Dunlap:

say, you know, let's say you're a payables clerk inside

Glenn Dunlap:

Ford Motor Company, I'm like, I would jump off the highest

Glenn Dunlap:

kill now.

Glenn Harper:

Kill me now.

Glenn Dunlap:

If that was I just couldn't I couldn't picture myself doing

Glenn Dunlap:

it. And then I just I would shut it off.

Glenn Dunlap:

I'm like not not going to be that guy.

Glenn Harper:

Now, it's funny that accounting now, you know, there is the

Glenn Harper:

actual date that has to happen and data entry and whatever.

Glenn Harper:

But most accounts now it's that's not where your value is.

Glenn Harper:

It's all in interpreting and trying to predict the future.

Glenn Harper:

And again, you're helping with that by having those data

Glenn Harper:

analytics to do so.

Glenn Harper:

How does you know, we're I'm always fascinated with

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs, how they get started and what they're doing,

Glenn Harper:

how they do it. And and it just your story just is it's

Glenn Harper:

amazing, right? It's it's very like everybody else is just

Glenn Harper:

a whole different path. But, you know, what do you

Glenn Harper:

actually, you know, do you have any bad habits that you

Glenn Harper:

have to support? And that's why you went into an

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneur system, because you can't really go and do a

Glenn Harper:

real job and get paid a fixed amount.

Glenn Harper:

You have to have that wiggle room to go do your thing and

Glenn Harper:

have that freedom, I should say, perceived freedom.

Glenn Harper:

What is it that you know?

Glenn Harper:

When did you decide that? That's it.

Glenn Harper:

I'm not working for the man anymore.

Glenn Harper:

I'm doing my own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. I think it was.

Glenn Dunlap:

It was, you know.

Glenn Dunlap:

I was at a consulting firm before I left and joined, and we

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

the fourth managing partner in in the beginning of the

Glenn Dunlap:

fourth year that I was there.

Glenn Dunlap:

The fourth different compensation structure and stuff.

Glenn Dunlap:

And it just was this moving piece.

Glenn Dunlap:

And candidly, it was they came to me and said, when I when

Glenn Dunlap:

I started in this job, it was it was a consulting firm that

Glenn Dunlap:

was owned by a law firm. So think about late, late

Glenn Dunlap:

nineties. You had all the tech stuff that was going on.

Glenn Dunlap:

You had all the high growth stuff and dotcom stuff that was

Glenn Dunlap:

crazy, right? And so the law firms had all formed

Glenn Dunlap:

consulting companies because they felt like they were

Glenn Dunlap:

giving up all that revenue.

Glenn Dunlap:

So this was a consulting company owned by a law firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

And when I went to work there, they set my compensation

Glenn Dunlap:

structure up, thinking that 90% of the revenue would come

Glenn Dunlap:

as referrals to me from the law firm and 10% I would need

Glenn Dunlap:

to go generate on my own.

Glenn Dunlap:

And they came to me when the when the fourth managing

Glenn Dunlap:

partner started, they came to me and said, hey, we did an

Glenn Dunlap:

analysis of the revenue and you know how much you've

Glenn Dunlap:

generated us? I don't know.

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, they go, Well, it sort of is.

Glenn Dunlap:

But 93% of the revenue you've generated in 7% came from law

Glenn Dunlap:

firms. And so then they go, Yeah, we want we want you to be

Glenn Dunlap:

the sales guy for the firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I went, Yeah, no.

Glenn Harper:

I don't do sales. I'm not a sales guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

I don't want to be, so I don't want me.

Glenn Dunlap:

But what was going through my mind was, is if I can sell it

Glenn Dunlap:

for you knuckleheads, I'm going to go sell it for myself.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I literally kind of walked out of that room a little bit

Glenn Dunlap:

bigger and went back to my office and I started calling

Glenn Dunlap:

clients and said, Hey, if I leave here, would you follow

Glenn Dunlap:

me? And they went and I didn't have a non-compete.

Glenn Dunlap:

I didn't have anything holding me back.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I went to one of the one of the founders of the firm and

Glenn Dunlap:

said, I think it's time for me to go.

Glenn Dunlap:

I'm going to go do my thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

And he was fully supportive of it and helps me help me go.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I think it was kind of one of those where it wasn't so

Glenn Dunlap:

much sticking it to the man kind of stories, but more of

Glenn Dunlap:

the confidence that it's time.

Glenn Dunlap:

I was in my mid thirties, I had enough of a network and

Glenn Dunlap:

confidence to go do this on my own and felt like I had a

Glenn Dunlap:

book of business and I could.

Glenn Dunlap:

It wasn't quite like sort of taking the safety net out from

Glenn Dunlap:

underneath the high wire, but it was it was enough that I

Glenn Dunlap:

felt enough, confident enough.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I would also say this.

Glenn Dunlap:

I had a quick conversation with my wife and she said, Yeah,

Glenn Dunlap:

I think it's time. And I didn't wait for her to change her

Glenn Dunlap:

mind.

Julie Smith:

So throughout the process, you know, as you went through,

Julie Smith:

you said your mid thirties, did you have a mentor or anyone

Julie Smith:

that kind of helped, you know, like give you some

Julie Smith:

information to guide you down that you know, you got the

Julie Smith:

confidence from your success, but did you have any, anyone

Julie Smith:

else in your ear that kind of helped guide you that way?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, there were there were a few people.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think when David Millard was one of the founders, he was

Glenn Dunlap:

the named partner in the law firm.

Glenn Dunlap:

And once one of the partners in the consulting company,

Glenn Dunlap:

David, had been on the board of the Small.

Glenn Dunlap:

I ran the Indianapolis Small Business Development Center,

Glenn Dunlap:

and so we'd gotten to know each other through that.

Glenn Dunlap:

And it was at a lunch that that I went to him to get some

Glenn Dunlap:

career advice and he said, I want you to come to Concord.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I said, I didn't.

Glenn Dunlap:

This wasn't about me seeking a job for me because I know, I

Glenn Dunlap:

know, but I want you. And then the whole time I was there,

Glenn Dunlap:

he gave me an awful lot of confidence in what I was doing

Glenn Dunlap:

because I had gone from on a Friday giving my services away

Glenn Dunlap:

at the Small Business Center to on Monday, charging a

Glenn Dunlap:

pretty decent fee on an hourly basis.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so that can be a difficult shift.

Glenn Dunlap:

And he just was right behind me the whole way and just

Glenn Dunlap:

continued to support me.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that was great mentor about about how to firms the

Glenn Dunlap:

structure and set up and just kind of how to organize those

Glenn Dunlap:

things and he was he was great from that perspective.

Glenn Dunlap:

He was also great with with clients.

Glenn Dunlap:

He was just one of those guys that could sit in a room and

Glenn Dunlap:

have a conversation with the client and and give them the

Glenn Dunlap:

good, the bad, the ugly and just learn from being able to

Glenn Dunlap:

and the way he handled the client situations.

Glenn Harper:

It's funny when you have when you do work for clients and

Glenn Harper:

you have that relationship with them and they just

Glenn Harper:

appreciate what you do and how you do it for them.

Glenn Harper:

You don't realize how much equity that is, right, that

Glenn Harper:

they'll follow you anywhere, you know, because they believe

Glenn Harper:

in you, because you believed in them and you help them and

Glenn Harper:

you're going they're going to help you.

Glenn Harper:

And it's just a cool thing to have that relationship.

Glenn Harper:

And you mentioned it a little earlier that, you know,

Glenn Harper:

literally you're working for this other firm, you're still

Glenn Harper:

working there, and you call them up and say, hey, if I go,

Glenn Harper:

will you come? And they're all like, absolutely, we dig

Glenn Harper:

you. I mean, that had to be a kind of a I don't want to say

Glenn Harper:

humbling experience, but just had to be a real like, wow,

Glenn Harper:

that's that's deep.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, it was. And it was it was quite a kind of time.

Glenn Dunlap:

I mean, it was it gave you the confidence.

Glenn Dunlap:

But you also knew then that they're counting on you and

Glenn Dunlap:

you've got to deliver here in order to maintain these

Glenn Dunlap:

relationships that they're not there.

Glenn Dunlap:

They may be there because you're there, but they're also

Glenn Dunlap:

going to also, you know, the pressure's on.

Glenn Dunlap:

There's no other name behind this.

Glenn Dunlap:

It's you. So so you've got to do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, yeah, it's.

Glenn Harper:

The buck stops there.

Glenn Dunlap:

It's good.

Glenn Harper:

Did you how long did it take you on your journey before you

Glenn Harper:

realise that you couldn't do everything yourself and you

Glenn Harper:

started implementing a team or strategic relationships and

Glenn Harper:

things like that? Was that right away or do you wait a

Glenn Harper:

little bit and try to struggle through it on your own?

Glenn Harper:

How that how'd that play out?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. You know, I left and it's really funny because when I

Glenn Dunlap:

left, one of the partners at the firm had laid a printout

Glenn Dunlap:

of of a of a guy's website.

Glenn Dunlap:

You remember when we used to print web pages?

Glenn Dunlap:

Because that was how we expected.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. So there was a printout of a web page of a guy that

Glenn Dunlap:

he's like, you know, you ought to get to know this guy.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so I had already scheduled a meeting with with him, and

Glenn Dunlap:

he had just started his own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I was starting my own thing.

Glenn Dunlap:

And after we met, we kind of, you know, maybe we got to do

Glenn Dunlap:

this together because there's you've got a book.

Glenn Dunlap:

I've got a book. We had some overlap and the things that we

Glenn Dunlap:

were doing. But he was a CPA and I'm not.

Glenn Dunlap:

So we brought some of those things together.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so as we kind of talked about that, we formed.

Glenn Dunlap:

But then we also realized that we both needed.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, to to to build some leverage into the model

Glenn Dunlap:

because it was just that roller coaster.

Glenn Dunlap:

If you're on your own, your head's down on projects and you

Glenn Dunlap:

may. It may be great revenue, but you finish those projects

Glenn Dunlap:

and you look up and you go, Oh, crap, there's.

Glenn Dunlap:

What do I do now?

Glenn Dunlap:

So we like we've got to we've got to build an entity almost

Glenn Dunlap:

right of way. So we hired two people, a CPA that was a stay

Glenn Dunlap:

at home mom that wanted some some extra hours to be able to

Glenn Dunlap:

get get her kids on the bus in the morning and be there

Glenn Dunlap:

when they get it. Got off the bus.

Glenn Dunlap:

But she didn't want to go back in public accounting, so she

Glenn Dunlap:

came to work for us. And then the guy that had worked for

Glenn Dunlap:

me for a couple of years at the other firm, that was also

Glenn Dunlap:

an entrepreneurship major.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so we hired two people the same day and then just

Glenn Dunlap:

continue to build from there.

Glenn Dunlap:

But it was almost right away.

Glenn Dunlap:

We recognize that if we don't build leverage into the

Glenn Dunlap:

system, it will just be the same size forever.

Glenn Harper:

Do you just magically have all this money that you just hire

Glenn Harper:

to people like that on the same day?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, what how does that even happen?

Glenn Dunlap:

We had we had we had projects that that we were able to

Glenn Dunlap:

engage them on right away.

Glenn Dunlap:

Beth, who started with this on a on a she started hourly,

Glenn Dunlap:

part time. So she was only getting paid when she worked.

Glenn Dunlap:

Bill, the guy that came with me, he said when I left, he

Glenn Dunlap:

said, I don't know what you're going to do, but I'm going

Glenn Dunlap:

to I'll go with you, whatever, and just take care of me

Glenn Dunlap:

however you can. So we it was just two people that kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

saw what we're doing and said, you know, yeah, just take

Glenn Dunlap:

care of me, you know? And they did.

Glenn Dunlap:

And they came in and, you know, we were we were super

Glenn Dunlap:

grateful for folks like that.

Glenn Harper:

You figure as an entrepreneur, like, you probably made that

Glenn Harper:

decision sooner than most.

Glenn Harper:

And at that point in time, when you realize that there's

Glenn Harper:

people that want to be part of what you're doing and and

Glenn Harper:

help you achieve what you want as a collective, the whole

Glenn Harper:

in yourself, and help them achieve something greater.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, you would have sold a kidney literally to hire

Glenn Harper:

somebody at that moment in time because most yeah, most

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs, they're just like, oh, I can't afford, I

Glenn Harper:

can't afford, I can't they never can afford it.

Glenn Harper:

So it's sort of like you got to either you got to do it or

Glenn Harper:

you're just never going to do it. So I applaud you for

Glenn Harper:

making that decision. That's a tough decision when you're

Glenn Harper:

bank counts negative and you're like, Well, I guess we got

Glenn Harper:

to go all in. And a lot of people don't do that.

Glenn Harper:

If you're listening to this podcast, you know, don't make

Glenn Harper:

foolish decisions, but you've got to believe in what you're

Glenn Harper:

doing. You've got to believe you got the right people.

Glenn Harper:

And, you know, price is what you pay, values what you get,

Glenn Harper:

and you've got to make those decisions that will help get

Glenn Harper:

you to the next level.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, we joke, Glenn, about the about in our in our app

Glenn Dunlap:

we have you can only put in financial statement

Glenn Dunlap:

information, but we have some some survey questions that

Glenn Dunlap:

will help you understand, you know, kind of as you're doing

Glenn Dunlap:

planning so your advisor can work through this with you.

Glenn Dunlap:

So you can say, you know, what are your short term like?

Glenn Dunlap:

What do you expect sales to do over the next year or what

Glenn Dunlap:

do you expect employee employment levels and all these

Glenn Dunlap:

things? Or so?

Glenn Dunlap:

What are your expectations, your priorities, your concerns?

Glenn Dunlap:

And it's you know, we rarely get entrepreneurs that think

Glenn Dunlap:

that the 2 to 3 years is is going to be flat or down.

Glenn Dunlap:

That's almost always some level of up.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. And there's some level of optimism that we as

Glenn Dunlap:

entrepreneurs just sort of have to have or otherwise we

Glenn Dunlap:

wouldn't do what we do.

Glenn Harper:

Mandatory.

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

We thought everything was going to be up into the right.

Glenn Harper:

Well, it's still right and it went there.

Glenn Harper:

Absolutely. It just took a little bit.

Glenn Dunlap:

That's right.

Glenn Harper:

Do you have, you know, most entrepreneurs, they have this,

Glenn Harper:

you know, some kind of superpower that basically sets them

Glenn Harper:

apart from their competition or everybody else, because

Glenn Harper:

it's just they got this shtick that there's this thing.

Glenn Harper:

Did you even have you evaluated yourself and thought about

Glenn Harper:

what your superpower is?

Glenn Harper:

Is it client communication?

Glenn Harper:

Is it risk taking?

Glenn Harper:

Is it, you know, concerted effort?

Glenn Harper:

Is it just who you just got some swag?

Glenn Harper:

What do you think that thing is that separates you?

Glenn Harper:

That kind of makes you the successful entrepreneur that you

Glenn Harper:

are?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think if there's anything, it's a willingness to ask that

Glenn Dunlap:

stupid question. It served me well when I was working with

Glenn Dunlap:

clients in a in a consultative situation.

Glenn Dunlap:

Look, maybe I don't understand this.

Glenn Dunlap:

Help me help me understand this.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I don't know your business as well as you, but can you

Glenn Dunlap:

tell me this or can that that I'm having trouble lining

Glenn Dunlap:

that up. Help me make sense of that.

Glenn Dunlap:

But I do the same thing now with as we're delivering things

Glenn Dunlap:

from a from a software perspective.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I'll sit with clients that are using the app and

Glenn Dunlap:

then it's either a round of boardroom or on a zoom call or

Glenn Dunlap:

whatever, and you'll see people's reaction.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I'll go, I know you're thinking about something or help

Glenn Dunlap:

me understand what you're thinking about.

Glenn Dunlap:

Or That doesn't seem like that sat right with you.

Glenn Dunlap:

What's what are your what are you thinking about there?

Glenn Dunlap:

Or how can we make this report better?

Glenn Dunlap:

What are you thinking about? And it's just those things

Glenn Dunlap:

that our best ideas I don't I don't have the sort of.

Glenn Dunlap:

Right. They're not invented here syndrome.

Glenn Dunlap:

It's like if somebody tells me, you know, I had I had a

Glenn Dunlap:

prospect the other day who's becoming a client.

Glenn Dunlap:

They've told me they're ready to move forward, but said, I

Glenn Dunlap:

think you've solved the problem for the CPA, but I don't

Glenn Dunlap:

think you've solved it for their client yet.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that hurt.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, that was one of those where I was like, oh, what?

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I'm like, what do you mean?

Glenn Dunlap:

And so. And so then you have to go.

Glenn Dunlap:

You can't. You can't get all wrapped up.

Glenn Dunlap:

This is you know, they didn't just tell you your baby's

Glenn Dunlap:

ugly. There's something here.

Glenn Dunlap:

So it's like, okay, so help me understand that.

Glenn Dunlap:

What do you mean by that? Let's go.

Glenn Dunlap:

Let's dig into it. And, you know, I think we've I think as

Glenn Dunlap:

a result of that, our team is about ready to push one of

Glenn Dunlap:

our I think one of our best updates to the application that

Glenn Dunlap:

as a result of that conversation six months ago and it's it

Glenn Dunlap:

it took me three months to figure out how to solve that

Glenn Dunlap:

problem that but it was one of those where 4:00 in the

Glenn Dunlap:

morning I wake up and go, you know, we can do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I'm slack in our team and they're like, Hey, you got to

Glenn Dunlap:

stop slacking. It's at 4 a.m.

Glenn Dunlap:

like, welcome. What else is is.

Glenn Harper:

And nobody else works. 24 seven.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah. Come on, everybody.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, that's that's it's it's just listening and asking

Glenn Dunlap:

questions and being willing to just make those changes.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think that's the if there's anything that I would credit

Glenn Dunlap:

our success to.

Julie Smith:

What I think I hear you saying, which I think has been a

Julie Smith:

common theme on our podcast, is you used information to

Julie Smith:

provide that you saw the opportunity and you were able to

Julie Smith:

provide the solution. So you didn't see it as you weren't

Julie Smith:

able to do something or a failure.

Julie Smith:

We hate that word, but you saw it as an opportunity and you

Julie Smith:

were able then to provide the solution, which I think is

Julie Smith:

amazing. It's a great superpower.

Glenn Harper:

It is. And I think the second thing that you probably did,

Glenn Harper:

too, is, you know, when you walk into a room, you kind of

Glenn Harper:

know what you're talking about.

Glenn Harper:

But it isn't about that.

Glenn Harper:

It's about learning something.

Glenn Harper:

Right? And you've got to listen to what people want and

Glenn Harper:

what they need. And as an entrepreneur, your brain's going

Glenn Harper:

1000 miles an hour anyway.

Glenn Harper:

It never shuts off.

Glenn Harper:

And all you're you're just gathering data.

Glenn Harper:

You're just like a combine. Just bring it all in, and then

Glenn Harper:

you're going to spit out a great product after it.

Glenn Harper:

And I think that's what you're doing, right?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, you're listening instead of just talking.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard.

Glenn Dunlap:

I'm not great at all of those things all the time.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I love product.

Glenn Dunlap:

I love I think it's I think it's great.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that's one of the challenges is being being the

Glenn Dunlap:

inventor, I guess, of the in thinking of of wanting to be

Glenn Dunlap:

able to share that story and tell that it's really hard to

Glenn Dunlap:

sort of set that aside.

Glenn Dunlap:

And and it's not about that.

Glenn Dunlap:

It's about the solution for them and how we can help them

Glenn Dunlap:

solve problems. And, you know, it's it's tough.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, you go through all those different selling things

Glenn Dunlap:

about helping people understand how sick they are before

Glenn Dunlap:

they need the solution. Right.

Glenn Dunlap:

Or how big is the state, the problem.

Glenn Dunlap:

And nobody likes to be uncomfortable, especially, you know,

Glenn Dunlap:

if you start telling people things that you see wrong or

Glenn Dunlap:

that you've got to earn that.

Glenn Dunlap:

So there's there's time in that, but it's when you do sort

Glenn Dunlap:

of get out of the way and let that take care of itself,

Glenn Dunlap:

then it works.

Glenn Harper:

Do you there's a one trick more trick question because I

Glenn Harper:

love those. Is there is what's the end game?

Glenn Harper:

Are you like, oh, when I hit 90, I'm going to retire and

Glenn Harper:

you know, I only want to make 100 million or is it going to

Glenn Harper:

make 100 billion?

Glenn Harper:

What's your end game or do you even have one?

Glenn Harper:

I know, I know the answer, but go ahead and we'll try it.

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, you know. Well, tell me what the answer should be

Glenn Dunlap:

first. I mean.

Glenn Harper:

That's what a good accountant does.

Glenn Harper:

Right. What do you want the answer to be now?

Glenn Harper:

I think the end game generally is there is no end game.

Glenn Harper:

You just you enjoy what you do.

Glenn Harper:

You love what you do. You're helping people.

Glenn Harper:

The money probably doesn't really matter.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, it's important, but it's not why you do it.

Glenn Harper:

And you're helping people.

Glenn Harper:

You have it. You get up in the morning going out there and

Glenn Harper:

slaying dragons and everybody's thankful for what you do

Glenn Harper:

for them. Why would you ever stop?

Glenn Harper:

So the only question really on that point, I'm guessing

Glenn Harper:

that's the case. And then if would you ever go into other

Glenn Harper:

businesses, you're how far can this business go that you're

Glenn Harper:

in these two?

Glenn Dunlap:

So I absolutely agree with everything you just said.

Glenn Dunlap:

I love what I do.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, I would I'd be happy doing this the rest of my

Glenn Dunlap:

life. So I it's kind of one of those things when when you

Glenn Dunlap:

get asked the question about the endgame, it's kind of

Glenn Dunlap:

like, does it have to have the end?

Glenn Dunlap:

I don't want to stop. But I think the challenge for us in

Glenn Dunlap:

the software company is that it's sort of an up or out push

Glenn Dunlap:

in software that if you're not continuing to, you see it

Glenn Dunlap:

all the time. When somebody builds a lifestyle software

Glenn Dunlap:

company and they stop developing, then they get passed by

Glenn Dunlap:

people that are innovative and they just and all of a

Glenn Dunlap:

sudden what they have is a lifestyle.

Glenn Dunlap:

Business is no longer providing them that same lifestyle.

Glenn Dunlap:

So. So it's it's a it's a growth plan for us.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we're we're looking at the different opportunities that

Glenn Dunlap:

we can take there. So we're in the CPA space.

Glenn Dunlap:

We've got some some announcements that we'll be making

Glenn Dunlap:

later this year that just after the busy season, that will

Glenn Dunlap:

be some some big opportunities for us to continue to expand

Glenn Dunlap:

and go deeper and wider in that accounting space.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we'll continue to do that.

Glenn Dunlap:

But there are other users of this data, too, that we have

Glenn Dunlap:

our eyes on that.

Glenn Dunlap:

And just thinking about like, how can we how can we

Glenn Dunlap:

transition that? If, you know, today, I would say that our

Glenn Dunlap:

our our mission is to really help CPAs and their clients to

Glenn Dunlap:

make better decisions. And if you if you back that up it

Glenn Dunlap:

eventually to be that it's really about the business owners

Glenn Dunlap:

and their advisors. And it's a broader set that would be of

Glenn Dunlap:

people. It could be investors.

Glenn Dunlap:

So private equity, venture capital, angel investors, there

Glenn Dunlap:

are lenders, the bank and non-bank lenders that would be

Glenn Dunlap:

interested in having this kind of data to help them make

Glenn Dunlap:

better decisions and be able to pass it on to their clients

Glenn Dunlap:

and use in different ways.

Glenn Dunlap:

So we're looking at some of those other markets, but for

Glenn Dunlap:

now, we know we're here with CPAs for for really a couple

Glenn Dunlap:

of reasons. I mean, one, they have a real need for this and

Glenn Dunlap:

they.

Glenn Harper:

Also really cool. Cpas are really cool.

Glenn Harper:

And you want to hang with them. I get it.

Glenn Harper:

I understand that.

Glenn Dunlap:

What else would you want to spend your time?

Glenn Harper:

I can't think of any place better.

Glenn Dunlap:

So it's right here.

Glenn Harper:

Right there. You know what's funny about what you said is

Glenn Harper:

and that's what I love about entrepreneurs, literally.

Glenn Harper:

You've got these two businesses, they're doing what they

Glenn Harper:

do, but you literally have like 12,000 other ideas that are

Glenn Harper:

just floating around out there that you need to attack and

Glenn Harper:

slay. And and as an entrepreneur, the key thing, and I

Glenn Harper:

think that's what Glen is saying is, you know, figure out

Glenn Harper:

what you're doing, make sure you got that down, and then

Glenn Harper:

methodically go through the next steps.

Glenn Harper:

Don't try to do everything at once because you'll never get

Glenn Harper:

anything done. You've got to just get the one thing done

Glenn Harper:

and just keep moving on.

Glenn Harper:

Would you agree with that? That that that comment?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah. Let me ask you about mentors earlier.

Glenn Dunlap:

Larry Baker is one of my best mentors.

Glenn Dunlap:

And Larry and I talked about I mean, he made me read The

Glenn Dunlap:

Crossing the Chasm, and we had to go through that a lot.

Glenn Dunlap:

And when you read that, there's the whole comparison.

Glenn Dunlap:

It's the beachhead. You've got to you've got to focus on

Glenn Dunlap:

winning this beachhead.

Glenn Dunlap:

You've got to win this victory.

Glenn Dunlap:

And then you can focus on the other things.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that's the crossing the chasm approach is, is that you

Glenn Dunlap:

can't you know, I think they also use the bowling pin

Glenn Dunlap:

analogy that you can't focus on the ten pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

You've got to focus on the lead pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

And for us, the CPA space is that lead pin.

Glenn Dunlap:

And by striking it and striking it well, it will help us to

Glenn Dunlap:

to get the other pins to fall.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we chose CB's because of the volume of data that's

Glenn Dunlap:

there. But we also chose it because the veracity and volume

Glenn Dunlap:

and veracity, when you think about who has the most trusted

Glenn Dunlap:

source of data, and that's one of the challenges with the

Glenn Dunlap:

other data sources that are out there.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, they're they're scrambling to get data.

Glenn Dunlap:

If you look at some of the places where you can submit your

Glenn Dunlap:

own data to it, I mean, that's that's not not the same.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so we're getting, you know, and we don't want to bolt

Glenn Dunlap:

into accounting applications and just pull in everybody's

Glenn Dunlap:

QuickBooks files because and not to beat up a QuickBooks,

Glenn Dunlap:

but it's more about the users of that in that, you know, in

Glenn Dunlap:

our firm we were getting called in where nobody had touched

Glenn Dunlap:

their files for two weeks, two months or two years and

Glenn Dunlap:

cleaning that stuff up. I don't want that data coming into

Glenn Dunlap:

the app. I only want data that CPA firms are, you know,

Glenn Dunlap:

through their accounting services or closing the books.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we've got solid data that's coming into the app every

Glenn Dunlap:

month. So so we've very specifically chosen the path to get

Glenn Dunlap:

a large amount of reliable data.

Glenn Dunlap:

And that's that's really why we're why we started here.

Glenn Harper:

As an entrepreneur is.

Glenn Harper:

And at this point in your in your journey, is there

Glenn Harper:

something you could tell yourself 20 years ago if you just

Glenn Harper:

would have done this or if you just would have changed this

Glenn Harper:

or just tweak that, you would be in a better position than

Glenn Harper:

you are now, whether it's getting some different advice,

Glenn Harper:

making a decision quicker, hiring, getting a mentor in

Glenn Harper:

there, is there something that you're like, man, if I just

Glenn Harper:

did that one thing, do you have you have anything like

Glenn Harper:

that?

Glenn Dunlap:

It's interesting. I think for me personally, I don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think writing and communicating are two of the toughest

Glenn Dunlap:

things for me. My just having this conversation with my

Glenn Dunlap:

youngest daughter last night about my SAT scores, my math

Glenn Dunlap:

scores, verbal scores were just completely opposite.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I think for me, being able to storytel and do those

Glenn Dunlap:

things I think really well would have suited me really

Glenn Dunlap:

well. From a personal standpoint, from a business

Glenn Dunlap:

standpoint, I think I think stepping back and saying like.

Glenn Dunlap:

We talked about the two people that we hired right away, I

Glenn Dunlap:

think, in when we launched Milestone Advisors.

Glenn Dunlap:

But I think, you know, looking at your skill sets and

Glenn Dunlap:

saying, okay, who else needs to be a part of this founding

Glenn Dunlap:

team? Who else needs to be a part of this to sort of be

Glenn Dunlap:

there and believe in this thing and to move forward with

Glenn Dunlap:

this? I think that's a that's a really key thing because

Glenn Dunlap:

when you do that hard assessment of your own skills and

Glenn Dunlap:

what you have, it's when you launch something like this,

Glenn Dunlap:

it's helpful to have a team of people who are very

Glenn Dunlap:

complementary and skill set and are baptized with their

Glenn Dunlap:

sword out of the water kind of thing that they're ready to

Glenn Dunlap:

charge. Really?

Glenn Dunlap:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Glenn Harper:

So I think probably the one of the funny things is your

Glenn Harper:

first experience of communication, selling or to these old

Glenn Harper:

guys that were mad that you were mowing their grass, they

Glenn Harper:

didn't want to talk to you anyway, you know?

Glenn Harper:

And so it probably took a while to get over that, to like,

Glenn Harper:

hey, wait a minute, people really do want to talk.

Glenn Harper:

They don't want to get off my lawn, kid.

Glenn Harper:

So that's probably would be probably is something that was

Glenn Harper:

helpful.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, one of the things that I think that I had.

Glenn Dunlap:

You know, not so good mentors.

Glenn Dunlap:

Think about the transition now when you think about it.

Glenn Dunlap:

So I spend a lot of time in groups of CPA firms that are

Glenn Dunlap:

talking about the challenge with, you know, working with

Glenn Dunlap:

millennials and how do they handle this workforce and all

Glenn Dunlap:

those things. And there's, there's.

Glenn Dunlap:

When I started, I'm not 90, but I did start a while ago

Glenn Dunlap:

working. And one of the things with that is that you you

Glenn Dunlap:

did whatever the boss told you to do and you did it, and

Glenn Dunlap:

you stayed as long as it took, and you did whatever it took

Glenn Dunlap:

to get the job done. And it was just kind of like that was

Glenn Dunlap:

the expectation. You went into it a lot.

Glenn Dunlap:

I think I lived to work in a lot of ways and I think this

Glenn Dunlap:

generation works to live and so there's a whole shift in

Glenn Dunlap:

that. But the thing that I hear a lot of people doing right

Glenn Dunlap:

now is is sort of sugarcoating it and doing all the stuff

Glenn Dunlap:

that, you know, trying to make it work so nice and pleasing

Glenn Dunlap:

and all that stuff. And I, I get it.

Glenn Dunlap:

I mean, I don't it shouldn't be, you know, you shouldn't

Glenn Dunlap:

have to slug through everything every day.

Glenn Dunlap:

But the flip side of that is, is that I think people are

Glenn Dunlap:

looking for a challenge.

Glenn Dunlap:

They want to be part of something that's bigger.

Glenn Dunlap:

And it's it's not so much that people want to be under the

Glenn Dunlap:

thumbscrews that I kind of felt like I grew up in that it

Glenn Dunlap:

was like scared of the boss and not knowing, you know, all

Glenn Dunlap:

those things that they want to be a part of it and they

Glenn Dunlap:

want to be a part of something bigger.

Glenn Dunlap:

And and, you know, they'll do hard stuff, they'll work and

Glenn Dunlap:

they'll accomplish major things.

Glenn Dunlap:

So, you know, one of the things that happened to us, we

Glenn Dunlap:

were doing only annual financial statement analysis going

Glenn Dunlap:

into the pandemic.

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

And when the pandemic hit, things were shutting down.

Glenn Dunlap:

The economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

Glenn Dunlap:

Nobody knew what was going to happen.

Glenn Dunlap:

And and all of a sudden, at the beginning of March, as the

Glenn Dunlap:

wheels are falling off of this stuff, I went, Oh, nobody is

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

because they're worried about payroll next week, next

Glenn Dunlap:

month, whatever they don't.

Glenn Dunlap:

And so it was kind of what are we going to do to survive?

Glenn Dunlap:

And I came back to our team and said, we have to release a

Glenn Dunlap:

monthly version of our app within the next four weeks.

Glenn Dunlap:

And the team said, we can't do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I said, Well, then we need to turn off the lights and

Glenn Dunlap:

go home and we're done.

Glenn Dunlap:

And they went, Huh?

Glenn Dunlap:

And I said, We're we will be at best irrelevant for the

Glenn Dunlap:

next year, if not longer.

Glenn Dunlap:

And we have to make this transition.

Glenn Dunlap:

It was like one of those things where we we had to do it.

Glenn Dunlap:

And I said I said, we have to figure this out.

Glenn Dunlap:

And they all kind of looked at each other and, yeah, we'll

Glenn Dunlap:

do it. And it was one of those things where they they I

Glenn Dunlap:

told them 415 was the deadline.

Glenn Dunlap:

And you know why, obviously.

Glenn Dunlap:

But we flipped the switch and released the monthly version

Glenn Dunlap:

Glenn Dunlap:

And then we went to all of our clients and we said, you

Glenn Dunlap:

know, you're using this with 20% of your of your client

Glenn Dunlap:

base. We're turning it all on for every single one of your

Glenn Dunlap:

clients. We want to be part of the solution, not part of

Glenn Dunlap:

the problem. So we're turning it on, use it for the next

Glenn Dunlap:

six months and help your clients get through this.

Glenn Dunlap:

And it was really kind of that transition, but it was also

Glenn Dunlap:

because you go to the team and you go, look, this is part

Glenn Dunlap:

of a bigger thing. This is, you know, this we have to do

Glenn Dunlap:

this and not just for our survival, but also we want to be

Glenn Dunlap:

part of the solution for the CPA firms and their clients

Glenn Dunlap:

and help them through this.

Glenn Dunlap:

And, you know, once they got their heads kind of wrapped

Glenn Dunlap:

around that piece, they they worked tons of hours in and

Glenn Dunlap:

completed things. It was a it was a fantastic effort.

Glenn Dunlap:

But, you know, I didn't put a foosball table in to make

Glenn Dunlap:

happy for them. Was like, you know, here's here's where we

Glenn Dunlap:

got to go and, you know, let's go together.

Glenn Dunlap:

And when we do this, we'll get to the other side and it'll

Glenn Dunlap:

be it'll be good. And that that not only saved us, but in

Glenn Dunlap:

the sense that we still had a viable, relevant product that

Glenn Dunlap:

we could continue to sell.

Glenn Dunlap:

But it's it's enabled our our growth for 21 and 22.

Julie Smith:

I think, you know, Glenn and I agree on that same concept.

Julie Smith:

Like, you have to be transparent and you have to

Julie Smith:

communicate the why. They have to understand what they're

Julie Smith:

going towards.

Julie Smith:

And once they wrap their head around that, you'd be

Julie Smith:

interested what they're willing to put their head down and

Julie Smith:

do. So I think you you described that exactly to a tee.

Glenn Harper:

We definitely call that leadership.

Glenn Harper:

And then you lead by example and you just laid it out and

Glenn Harper:

said, look, if you don't if we don't do this, we're out of

Glenn Harper:

business and people would rather work towards something and

Glenn Harper:

work for a common goal than just come up and punch the

Glenn Harper:

clock so that that's what it's all about.

Glenn Harper:

So any entrepreneurs listen to this.

Glenn Harper:

I hope you get a lot of good stuff out of here.

Glenn Harper:

Glenn, I appreciate you taking some time with us today.

Glenn Harper:

And I wish you wish you luck on the rest of your day in

Glenn Harper:

Indianapolis. And and hopefully we'll get some more snow

Glenn Harper:

coming your way, which would be great, because that means

Glenn Harper:

we're going to get it then it's all good.