Contract Diagnostics is a nationwide consulting company, not a law firm, and the ONLY company that specializes 100% in physician contract review.
Jon’s team of contract review specialists has served many thousands of physicians in all specialties across all 50 states.
Contract Diagnostics was formed in 2011 and has been Jon’s passion ever since. He is dedicated to the education of physicians in the non-clinical (business) aspect of medicine.
Had you been an entrepreneur before? Growing up as a kid?
Oh, funny enough. So I started a stereo company Car Stereos when I was 17, not because I wanted to have a big company and make a lot of money. There were certain brands of stereo equipment that we wanted in Brookings, and there was one, one small stereo company, and they didn’t have the good brands and we didn’t feel like they gave the customer a good deal. And so my friend and I started a company at 17 just so we could get our brands, and it did well. It’s still going successfully under separate ownership.
How did Contract Diagnostics start?
I was looking at this market, you know, 12 years ago or so, there really wasn’t like there wasn’t like a national brand. And I had lots of friends who were physicians who could kind of give me guidance. I said, Well, who’d you use for this service? And, you know, they didn’t know they should, or they called some local attorney who didn’t understand physicians and physician contracts.
But how do you sell a service or product to someone who doesn’t even know they need it?
Now we have a new product that I feel hundreds of thousands of physicians need. And now we’re back in the process of telling them, you know, teaching them that they do absolutely need this product. And I mentioned to my team all the time that I feel like we’re trying to sell an iPhone in 1984, you know, and you should try it. You need this in your pocket. It’s going to revolutionize the way you live. And people would say, What are you talking about? There’s no way I need this thing, you know? So it’s it’s fun and challenging at the same time.
So what does your team do to help physicians?
So we’ve got great attorneys that work here, but we don’t operate like a law firm, so we don’t give legal advice. We’re consultants if you will. So we understand the way that a physician should understand risk in a contract so we can go through it with him or her and really kind of explain it in plain English.
And what Jon sees as the “secret” to success…
It’s still one of those things that, you know, you find something that you really enjoy. You put your heart soul into it and and you work it till you’re blue in the face. And you don’t give up and you provide good products and then and things happen.
In an unusual growth pattern, Jon hires his first employee for his “side gig” before he even left his corporate job. Why?
The business was strong and my time was was kind of capped. And I realized that it has to get bigger than just me.
Do you have any regrets or son of a moments that you wish you could do it over again, that you would have changed to get you where you are quicker?
Maybe the one thing that I would change was, is the the way that you that you prioritize initiatives. I think still 32 ideas on ways that we can make the company better. But I think I would have maybe started prioritizing that list maybe a little bit different years ago.
What’s been key to Jon’s growth is relationships. They have been the key to where he is today. No matter if it’s been in his business and corporate, in and around that area, it seems like he’s really been able to solidify, grow all the relationships that he has to in order to get to where he is today.
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Transcript
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Welcome to another edition, The Empowering Entrepreneurs,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:The Harper and Company Way. I'm Glenn Harper
Julie Smith:
Speaker:I'm Julie Smith.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Good to see you, Julie. What's up today?
Julie Smith:
Speaker:You're a little red. What happened this week in college
Julie Smith:
Speaker:graduation?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And I was under the welder at the stadium, watched my
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:daughter graduate. And apparently you're supposed to wear
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:sunscreen for that when you're there for 4 hours and got
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:You missed that memo.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But yeah, but we'll get it next time.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Daughter Number three It will be in a couple of years and
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I'll wear the big hat so I can be a safari guy.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, I just wanted to start today.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:We've got a guest today named Jon Appino, and he's a fellow
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneur. He's the brains behind Contract Diagnostics,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:a physician contract review.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's a company that provides industry specific data.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:John will review the physician's specific, specific
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:contract and then partner with them to negotiate the more
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:favorable contracts, which sounds kind of intriguing.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And, John, it looks like you're welcome and it looks like
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you're from Brookings, South Dakota.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is that true?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Big city of dreams.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I'm absolutely.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's the craziest thing.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You're the second guest in our and our like window here.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That is from Brookings, South Dakota, which is in the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:fourth largest city in South Dakota, which is really cool.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is that how you decide to go to South Dakota State there?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Unfortunately, I took the easy path and I did jump out of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:South Dakota for my undergrad.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I stayed right there in my hometown and it was nice.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:My mom was close. I had tons of friends, but it was the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:easy thing to do. I wish I would have done it differently,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:but looking back. But.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But, yeah, that's why I became a jackrabbit.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I'm not.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I'm curious on who your other guest was.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Well.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I heard I heard that you took the bookmobile for a joyride.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is that true?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Well, I'm.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Sorry. The bookmobile.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Apparently, south coast states got this one weird
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:automobile thing that they do, and it's like a whole
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:traditional thing for, like, the last 60 years or
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:something. I didn't know if you were that.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I just heard a rumor. I was just checking.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Oh, I have not stolen any bookmobile, but hobo days is our
Jon Appino:
Speaker:big like our big our day and homecoming or whatever.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it's a big, giant party, and it's a ton of fun for
Jon Appino:
Speaker:sure.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, did you grow up on the agricultural side of it or are
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you a city kid?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:No, a city kid from South Dakota, the fourth largest, which
Jon Appino:
Speaker:is 25,000 people, maybe now, you know, so a city for South
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Dakota. And then I moved to Rapid City, which is a bigger
Jon Appino:
Speaker:city, you know, about 100,000.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I moved to Kansas City, a bigger city, two and one
Jon Appino:
Speaker:half million. But all my friends from New York and from San
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Francisco still called Kansas City a little tiny cow town.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Is that funny, I guess, based on your perspective?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, they just fly over it so they don't really know.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Right. Did you end up in Kansas City for the ribs, the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:royals or the chiefs or just did happen to go there?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:No, I went down there for work, actually, and I had some
Jon Appino:
Speaker:family there. And it was an easy transition from where I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was working in Rapid City after my undergrad.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then there was a bigger job, same company with a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:promotion and more money in Kansas City.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it was the path that I was in at that time in
Jon Appino:
Speaker:corporate, and that was like a great next step.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It was a bigger city, more opportunity.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Family there, still the Midwest.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it was still a big move for for us.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But at the same time, it was an easy move with the company.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, you wanted to you wanted to be have a real job and be
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:in the corporate America. Is that what your goal was at the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:time?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It was. I worked in pharmaceuticals and in biotech and a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:couple of different companies and many different roles.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I had lots of different roles in the organization, in the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:sales and the marketing and contracting and everything
Jon Appino:
Speaker:else. And it was a it was an interesting I learned a ton
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and it's what ended up leading me to find a niche, which is
Jon Appino:
Speaker:what drives me today and kind of crave the passion behind
Jon Appino:
Speaker:contract diagnostics.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Had you been a entrepreneur before?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Growing up as a kid, your hustling, you know, yards and
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:stuff like that, or was it not so much?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Oh, funny enough.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So I started a stereo company Car Stereos when I was 17,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:not because I wanted to have a big company and make a lot
Jon Appino:
Speaker:of money. There were certain brands of stereo equipment
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that we wanted in Brookings, and there was one, one small
Jon Appino:
Speaker:stereo company, and they didn't have the good brands and we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:didn't feel like they gave the customer a good deal.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They didn't have the right brands, they didn't have good
Jon Appino:
Speaker:service. They were more like We wanted to sell and push
Jon Appino:
Speaker:stuff on you than provide value and service.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so my friend and I started a company at 17 just so we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:could get our brands, and it did well.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It's still going successfully.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I don't have a participation in it now.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I started in what was it in 1999 in South Dakota.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Maybe, I don't know, maybe the Internet was slower to catch
Jon Appino:
Speaker:on, but you could buy stuff online in the late nineties,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and I was one of the few people who would go on and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:actually trust this computer with my credit card.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I set up a like a supplement distribution out of my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:dorm where I would get protein powders and create teens and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:vitamins in and sell them to the football players and the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:volleyball players and everything else.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Again, not to make any money, not because I wanted to have
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a big company. I just wanted my protein powder for free.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so I got to meet a lot of good people.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I went and met with the football players and the coaches
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and we put packages together for the basketball players for
Jon Appino:
Speaker:four for summer training.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I think the nearest GNC was one overpriced and it was in
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Sioux Falls, which was a 45 minute drive, so you could buy
Jon Appino:
Speaker:protein powder in Brookings.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So I set up a minimum order with a company called DPS
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Nutrition. I think they're still around today.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I used to get boxes and boxes of boxes delivered to my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:dorm room and I would sell it out of my dorm.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So and that's it.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Maybe it's been kind of built in.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I went into corporate and I was in corporate for
Jon Appino:
Speaker:quite some time. And you know, at first, at first it worked
Jon Appino:
Speaker:really well. And then I think I just I got sick of some of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the. Some of the the box, if you will, that corporate puts
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you in. And when you want it, when you're creative and you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:think out of the box like an entrepreneur does, and you try
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to apply some of those in the corporate space, sometimes
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they say, well, that's not how we do it here.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:That's against policy.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Or You can't do that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Or, you know, that's not your job at somebody else's.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And sometimes you, you, you stick out and sometimes you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:decide to go your own way, which I ultimately did.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:So how many times did you get told you can't do something
Julie Smith:
Speaker:before you thought, all right, I got to do something
Julie Smith:
Speaker:different?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Oh, I don't know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I don't know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But it was one of those, like, you know, whether I was I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:wanted to I wanted to work my way through the organization,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and I wanted to live in New York in a big, high rise.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I wanted to work 80 hour weeks and wear a $2,000 suit
Jon Appino:
Speaker:every day. And that's what I wanted.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I wanted to have the big job with the big money.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And and and I thought I wanted and then once I tried to
Jon Appino:
Speaker:kind of create my path and that's not how it was done, I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:just kind of got sour on it.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And there was a promotion that thank goodness it didn't
Jon Appino:
Speaker:happen going to Denver.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And that kind of soured me even more.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I just I started looking at other options and I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:started contract diagnostics, which started out at a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:separate company, and then just kind of morphed into what
Jon Appino:
Speaker:it is today.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I just kind of started it on the side, you know, and I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:work nights and weekends and it took some time and it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:provided some financial stability for my family as it as it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:started to be profitable.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I didn't need the money so I could put it back in.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So yeah, I don't regret my time in corporate at all.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, I learned a ton.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I met some great lifelong friends.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They paid well so I could live off of that, so I could
Jon Appino:
Speaker:invest in the company at an early age.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I didn't have to worry about making a profit.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I could worry about the customers and making a good
Jon Appino:
Speaker:product. And so so yeah it's been an interesting and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:industry. Well, for sure.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, it's kind of funny. It's from selling stereos and the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:protein powder. And then now this contract services you're
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:selling what people didn't even know they needed.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And you're like, they don't even know they have a better
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:stereo, but I'm going to go sell them.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:They don't even know the protein powder because they all
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:eat meat. But I'm going to give them protein powder and
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:they don't even know that they'll need a whole big law firm
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:to do a contract.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:They can use me to do this.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:So how about that?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That's. That's definitely the trail of an entrepreneur, for
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:sure.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah, well, we kind of you know, when I was looking at this
Jon Appino:
Speaker:market, you know, 12 years ago or so, there really wasn't
Jon Appino:
Speaker:like there wasn't like a national brand.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I had lots of friends who were physicians who who could
Jon Appino:
Speaker:who could kind of give me guidance.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I said, Well, who'd you use for this service?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, you know, they didn't know they should, or they called
Jon Appino:
Speaker:some local attorney who didn't understand physicians and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:physician contracts. And, you know, they if they were
Jon Appino:
Speaker:living in Kansas City, but they were starting a job in
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Texas, do I get a lawyer in Kansas City?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Do I call somewhere in Texas?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:How do I find someone in Texas?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Do I meet with them? Do I have a phone call?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Do we email what's best?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:There was no real guidance and there's no real national
Jon Appino:
Speaker:company that could just do everything in all 50 states.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So we found a nation and yeah, and now we have a new
Jon Appino:
Speaker:product that I feel hundreds of thousands of physicians
Jon Appino:
Speaker:need. And now we're back in the process of telling them,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you know, teaching them that they do absolutely need this
Jon Appino:
Speaker:product. And I mentioned to my my team all the time that I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:feel like we're trying to sell an iPhone in 1984, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and you should try it. You need this in your pocket.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It's going to revolutionize the way you live.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And people would say, What are you talking about?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:There's no way I need this thing, you know?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it's it's it's fun and challenging at the same time.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:We thought this would be a great time.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Segue into tell us, what is it that your company does?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It sounds like you're kind of practicing law, but not
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:really. But you're in all the states.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But how does that how does that work when you're giving
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:this kind of advice for clients?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Tell us what you kind of do.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I'm a physician and I have to, you know, get hired in.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I got to sign a contract.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Do I call you first?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:How does that work?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. So we've got great attorneys that work here, but we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:don't operate like a law firm, so we don't give legal
Jon Appino:
Speaker:advice. We're consultants, if you will.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So we understand the way that a physician should understand
Jon Appino:
Speaker:risk in a contract so we can go through it with him or her
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and really kind of explain it in plain English.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:As far as what's clear in the document, if something's not
Jon Appino:
Speaker:clear, we don't interpret it.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We tell the physician that they need to go better
Jon Appino:
Speaker:understand it or have it be more clear in the agreement.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But we spend a lot of time focusing on compensation.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So physician compensation has changed dramatically over the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:years and some of them are paid on productivity and some of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:them have very dynamic productivity structures.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, some compensation plans will be six or seven total
Jon Appino:
Speaker:pages long in themselves and they have no idea what our
Jon Appino:
Speaker:views are or what collection ratios are fair or, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:how to analyze a report as far as their profitability or
Jon Appino:
Speaker:not. So we spend a lot of time just discussing and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:explaining what their particular situation is, comparing
Jon Appino:
Speaker:what they have to the market value.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So if you're a cardiologist in Chicago, it's much different
Jon Appino:
Speaker:than a cardiologist in Texas or a cardiologist in
Jon Appino:
Speaker:California. But a cardiologist in you know, in in San Jose
Jon Appino:
Speaker:is much different than one in Sacramento and much different
Jon Appino:
Speaker:than one in San Diego.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And if you're at a hospital or a small practice, they're
Jon Appino:
Speaker:also dramatically different.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So since this is all we do, we can focus and talk to the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:physician in a way that a physician needs to be talked
Jon Appino:
Speaker:with, because, of course, a cardiologist has a different
Jon Appino:
Speaker:personality typically than a pediatrician, different than a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:surgeon. So we're able to kind of talk to each individual
Jon Appino:
Speaker:physician in their language and kind of coach them on.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We might have to we might have to really motivate a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:pediatrician to ask for more money because they're so
Jon Appino:
Speaker:sweet. They're so kind.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They would they how do I how do I ask for $5,000?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And we sometimes have to tame the surgeon because they want
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to go in and say, I'm going to ask for 50,000.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, you know, well, maybe that's not market norm.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So we basically just get to discuss with them and we give
Jon Appino:
Speaker:them guidance on where the risk is and what how they could
Jon Appino:
Speaker:better discuss it, how they can understand it and how they
Jon Appino:
Speaker:can have a good discussion with the employer both now while
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they have the contract and then moving forward throughout
Jon Appino:
Speaker:their career. So I hate to say, like, I, it's, it's, it's
Jon Appino:
Speaker:simple. It's not easy.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We just look at contract and we just talk to doctors and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:there's there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:background with compensation data, understanding market
Jon Appino:
Speaker:trends, understanding how different markets might move from
Jon Appino:
Speaker:one to the next and and everything else.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So simple, not easy, I guess is an easy way to say it.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:So, John, I'm curious, you were in your corporate job doing
Julie Smith:
Speaker:what you do.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:Where was the aha moment to create this to see this need to
Julie Smith:
Speaker:fulfill it? Obviously you did both for a little bit of
Julie Smith:
Speaker:time, but did someone come to you and ask for advice or
Julie Smith:
Speaker:what kind of made you have that idea or that moment?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So in my and in some of my roles, I interacted with
Jon Appino:
Speaker:physicians on a very routine basis.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I would just always I was always questioning, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:what's the worst part of your day?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:What's what's a hassle when you're going through this one?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I was just trying to become get to know them and be more be
Jon Appino:
Speaker:friends with them. But two, I was just curious and one of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the things that a lot of physicians kept saying was when
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they finished their training, the process from I finished
Jon Appino:
Speaker:my medical training to I'm going to go get a job.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It's very, very challenging.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, physicians all get jobs.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We hear about the physician shortage.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It's unlike a college grad who tries to get a job in
Jon Appino:
Speaker:accounting and they can't find anything in accounting.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But physicians always find jobs that might not be the ideal
Jon Appino:
Speaker:location or the ideal place, but they always get jobs.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then with most opportunities, a contract comes with it.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But we didn't want to work on the contract at first because
Jon Appino:
Speaker:all the physicians said the process of finding a job is
Jon Appino:
Speaker:difficult. The process of relocating all of our stuff is
Jon Appino:
Speaker:challenging. They typically finish their training in June,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:but they don't start jobs until August or even September
Jon Appino:
Speaker:once they're board certified and they've got credentials at
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the hospital and everything else.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So there's that lag in there where they don't have
Jon Appino:
Speaker:financial means. Sometimes they don't have a job.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So they're kind of waiting and doing paperwork and moving
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and everything else. But they said their recruiters, all my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:friends said the recruiters were a pain in the side.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They said this contract thing is a pain in the side.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They said Just transitioning, just understanding what comes
Jon Appino:
Speaker:next is just a hassle.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So I was going to create a company called New Cloud
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Medical, which is actually the parent company of contract
Jon Appino:
Speaker:diagnostics at DBA and knew Cloud was going to do
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything. We going to reinvent the entire thing.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We were going to reinvent recruiting.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We're going to reinvent contract reviews.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We're going to reinvent I mean, I was going to have a card
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that they can go down to their local BMW dealership and get
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a discount on a BMW if they wanted to or a moving company,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they could get a discount.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We're going to have a real estate division and a banking
Jon Appino:
Speaker:division and an investment division and sell them life
Jon Appino:
Speaker:insurance and disability insurance.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And we were going to do everything and reinvent it all.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And and so that's the way the company started.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And of course, I realize you can't do everything great.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And one of the things I didn't like around the recruiting
Jon Appino:
Speaker:thing was all the phone calls and all the back and forth
Jon Appino:
Speaker:emails and, you know, at the at the stereo company, people
Jon Appino:
Speaker:would come in, you'd help them, you'd sell them a stereo,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and it was transactional.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You buy something from me for $200 and I make $35 or
Jon Appino:
Speaker:whatever. There's a transaction.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I like that I could go home at the end of the day saying I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:worked for 8 hours. I got to help five people and four
Jon Appino:
Speaker:people bought something from me and I made $100 or so.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But with recruiting, much like with real estate, you might
Jon Appino:
Speaker:show a ton of houses or you might make a ton of phone calls
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and then nobody signs and nobody calls you back.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It's hard to decide if my day was well spent or not, and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you might make $20,000 on some random day or 30,000 on some
Jon Appino:
Speaker:random day with one phone call.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But you might go a month before you do that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I didn't like that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so we did some contract reviews and I like that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:transactional nature.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We provide you a service and knowledge and you give us
Jon Appino:
Speaker:money and and that we can do it again and again and again.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I start looking at the market and talking to other
Jon Appino:
Speaker:friends and I realized that there was no company that was
Jon Appino:
Speaker:really looking at this thing on a national basis that was
Jon Appino:
Speaker:just a national brand that anybody can call in any state
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and get good advice from people who knew what they were
Jon Appino:
Speaker:doing. So that's where we kind of started contract or I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:started contract diagnostics and we kind of dropped
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything else because I said I'd rather be world class at
Jon Appino:
Speaker:one thing then sort of kind of good at a whole bunch of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:things. And so then we started contract or I started
Jon Appino:
Speaker:contract diagnostics.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I think 12 years ago, maybe it was we've had some copycats,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:which is really kind of cool, I think, as far as other
Jon Appino:
Speaker:companies now, which is fun.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But, but it started with something else and it ended up
Jon Appino:
Speaker:being totally different than what I had initially had the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:vision for.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:So in the beginning, and as you went through that process of
Julie Smith:
Speaker:starting it, did you have a mentor or someone that was
Julie Smith:
Speaker:really by your side that you could ask that advice and get
Julie Smith:
Speaker:the solid truth instead of maybe what you wanted to hear?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, nobody like nobody that I would say I met with
Jon Appino:
Speaker:like every single week, you know, and they sat down and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they grilled me.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, my dad worked for a guy that in Brookings, Larson
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Storm doors and Dale Larson is a fantastic person and a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:wonderful entrepreneur and now a brilliant philanthropist.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I mean, I guess his whole life has been and I would
Jon Appino:
Speaker:talk to Dale from time to time, and he would you know, he
Jon Appino:
Speaker:would kind of just give me global advice.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, here's how to think of this.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Here's how to give back, you know, here's how to treat
Jon Appino:
Speaker:people if you ever hire anybody.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But it wasn't necessarily like I was bringing my business
Jon Appino:
Speaker:problems to him. It was more kind of just global advice.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I had a handful of relationships like that that I could
Jon Appino:
Speaker:get kind of global advice on or coaches, if you will.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But nobody that I could really sit down and say, this is my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:problem with this company or this website or this
Jon Appino:
Speaker:competitor or this pricing for packaging.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It was just all kind of I just it was just kind of me in my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:basement, sleepless nights and a lot of weekends and and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything else.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know, it's it's a funny thing listening to you, because
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I think one of the cool parts about this is that you had
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:already been indoctrinated talking to surgeons and doctors
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and and all these folks, and they just think about things
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:in a little different way.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And you just got to learn how to communicate with them and
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:listen to what they're really saying, because really they
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:just want to go do doctoring stuff.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:They don't really want to do anything else, but they just
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:probably didn't feel like anybody ever listened or nor that
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:they even know the question to ask about the other stuff.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And we see that doctors, they just don't know the financial
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:part of things and what it means for taxes and retirement
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and all those protections like you were mentioning, those
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:other services that you were going to provide.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know, there's a great opportunity for that because, you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:know, people really want someone they can trust to do all
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:those things. And so I think it's interesting that you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:really didn't need to know what to sell.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You just knew how to talk to people and you just listen to
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:them. And all of a sudden, there you are.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Now you've had to figure out how to package it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:How did you come up with your packaging process and
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:knowing, Hey, I got to be able to scale this thing.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I don't want to just deal with ten clients.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I want to deal with thousands and not only going to be
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:thousands of clients, but they're going to start in these
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:three states. And then in five years, doctors always move.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I'm going to have to be in these 12 states and then three
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:more years I got to be in 50 states.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:How did you figure that part out?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I did a lot of the work on my own at first.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, you know, I had some contractors that I would have,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you know, help out with various things.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I think the company just kind of organically grew.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I put more time in and less time in corporate and more
Jon Appino:
Speaker:time in the company and less time in corporate.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then when we got to the right, when I was at my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:capacity where we just couldn't help any more people, I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:thought we could raise prices and maybe we'll get less
Jon Appino:
Speaker:business and we'll still make the same amount of money.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Or I could bring somebody else on, you know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so I brought someone to help a little bit, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and we're still a small company.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We just got a handful of associates here that work with us.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But, you know, over the years, I've always, you know, I've
Jon Appino:
Speaker:appropriately scaled and maybe that's, you know, maybe my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:risk tolerance for a typical entrepreneur is much less
Jon Appino:
Speaker:because I haven't cashed out the 401.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:K and hired, you know, five people at once and then worried
Jon Appino:
Speaker:about it later. I've just kind of very slowly scaled over
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the last 12 years, and it was probably just me for the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:first five years where I did everything from billing to,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you know, to accounting to all the emails, to paperwork.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I had like some contractors that I would have help with
Jon Appino:
Speaker:some attorneys in that thing.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But, but then I brought somebody on to help with the books
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and then I brought somebody on to help with contracts.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then I brought and then my, my at the time, the gal who
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was helping me with billing, she took on more tasks and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:more roles and she went from 7 hours a week to now.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, she's probably seven or 9 hours a day, you know, so
Jon Appino:
Speaker:so we just kind of appropriately and slowly kind of gone
Jon Appino:
Speaker:from there. But I did a lot of the work at first.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, you know, it's those late nights and those those
Jon Appino:
Speaker:weekends that you give up that I think build.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And you have that grit that builds a lot of character when
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you're starting a company and then you look back and you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:appreciate it much more when your schedule's a little more
Jon Appino:
Speaker:open.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:This seems really weird that like it just didn't magically
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:happen overnight. You're a multi gazillionaire with 1000
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:employees. You mean it takes time and effort and sacrifice?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is that you telling us something different that other
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:people tell us is so weird?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I don't know if that's a pass now with, you know, bitcoin
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and all that stuff or if it's if it's still one of those
Jon Appino:
Speaker:things that, you know, you find something that you really
Jon Appino:
Speaker:enjoy. You put your heart soul into it and and you work it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:till you're blue in the face.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And you don't give up and you provide good products and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:then and things happen.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I think that's, you know, this, this, this podcast is all
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:about the journey and how to get from A to B, from, you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:know, real job to an entrepreneur.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And so when you had real job and decided to do this thing
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:on the side, how long did it take for you to be double
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:dipping before you said, you know, that's it, it's time I'm
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:going full on in?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:How long a time was that, you think?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Again from my my individual risk tolerance is probably much
Jon Appino:
Speaker:different than a lot of typical brewers.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I would say maybe it was seven years.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Oh, wow.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Well, maybe eight years.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it just kind of again, it just kind of slowly kind of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:came on and I will schedule at my in my in corporate.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it wasn't an 8 to 5 Monday through Friday type of job.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Some days were longer, some days were shorter.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, some nights I worked and then I took the other
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the next day off. And so the job was was very flexible and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:more results based than time based.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I had great results.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so my time wasn't questioned.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But, but yeah, it probably took that long, which again, it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:allowed me to not only bring the company up, but as I was
Jon Appino:
Speaker:working, you know, I could invest a little in the company.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But it also because the company ended up making two or
Jon Appino:
Speaker:three times what my, my, my salary in corporate was.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so it wasn't a thing about I should leave because I can
Jon Appino:
Speaker:afford to leave. But then it became, How do we feel again?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:My risk tolerance might be less than some entrepreneurs.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So we spent time paying off debt.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:We spent time saving money for the kids.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:My wife was working a lot at the time as well, and we spent
Jon Appino:
Speaker:time paying off the house and, you know, and really kind of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:getting in a solid financial position, both with contract
Jon Appino:
Speaker:diagnostics and us individually.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And and then we made a decision to leave corporate together.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it actually took it was actually we made a decision to
Jon Appino:
Speaker:leave on a particular day.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And it was actually the plan was kind of blown up because
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the company it was a fantastic company.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But they actually came to us.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They were they were going to fold the division that I was
Jon Appino:
Speaker:working in because it was a product that was running off of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a patent and pharmaceuticals and biotech.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so as that product was coming off of the patent, they
Jon Appino:
Speaker:didn't have any where to assign the division.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So they announced a year, a year in advance, I think a year
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and a couple of months in advance that they're going to
Jon Appino:
Speaker:dissolve the division and give everybody a severance
Jon Appino:
Speaker:package. So it's a little ironic that they actually paid me
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to leave. So it was kind of everything worked out great.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But again, we had made a decision that we're going to leave
Jon Appino:
Speaker:on this particular day, on this particular month and the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:month before, we are going to throw the towel in, if you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:will, and give all the stock back and say, keep the job and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the salary and everything.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They announce that if I would wanted to stick around for a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:year, they were going to pay me to leave.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And again, I didn't hate the job and the flexible schedule
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was was great and I had friends that I worked with.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it wasn't like maybe some or they hate their job and are
Jon Appino:
Speaker:grinding 8 to 5 Monday through Friday.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I was able to spend a lot of time on contract diagnostics
Jon Appino:
Speaker:while still meeting expectations at corporate.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And then we kind of made a decision with my wife to stick
Jon Appino:
Speaker:around for another year just from a financial decision.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It was a good one to make, and I didn't think that leaving
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that job to focus on contract diagnostics at the time was,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was something that that that was urgent.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Urgent. But then we did book a trip to take our kids to
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Italy the entire summer of 2019, which is when we, when we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:ended up leaving corporate.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, and then we kind of celebrated by spending the entire
Jon Appino:
Speaker:summer of 2019 with the kids in Italy.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it worked out well.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is there a way I can get the number of that cushy corporate
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:job so I can apply for that?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That sounds awesome.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Well, it was it. I mean, I hate to say it wasn't cushy.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:It was a ton of work. And you had to be very good and very
Jon Appino:
Speaker:talented at the position.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But but yeah, it worked out well.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I still I still talk with my friends at the company
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and, you know, and I still miss everybody.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I miss the camaraderie that we used to have, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:because when you're in a small company, you know, it's just
Jon Appino:
Speaker:different than when you're with a big company and you've
Jon Appino:
Speaker:got lots and lots of colleagues and associates.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:So I was doing the math, John, and I'm not really good at
Julie Smith:
Speaker:math, so no, she's not.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:If I did it incorrectly, please correct me.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:But did you hire your first employee to be a part of your
Julie Smith:
Speaker:team before you left corporate America?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yes.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:That's awesome. And so what ultimately led you to make that
Julie Smith:
Speaker:decision that you decided you needed to delegate and get
Julie Smith:
Speaker:that off of your plate in order to continue to juggle both
Julie Smith:
Speaker:those roles?
Speaker3:
Speaker:The business was strong and my time was was kind of capped.
Speaker3:
Speaker:And I realized that it has to get bigger than just me
Speaker3:
Speaker:because I didn't even if I if I left corporate, I wanted
Speaker3:
Speaker:more of a flexible schedule.
Speaker3:
Speaker:I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to go from getting up
Speaker3:
Speaker:at three in the morning to get to the gym, to get both jobs
Speaker3:
Speaker:done all day long, and then working three nights, four
Speaker3:
Speaker:nights a week sometimes.
Speaker3:
Speaker:I worked every Sunday night for eight or nine years.
Speaker3:
Speaker:I worked from, I think 4:00 till 10:00 every single Sunday
Speaker3:
Speaker:night for four, seven, eight years maybe.
Speaker3:
Speaker:And I didn't want to do that.
Speaker3:
Speaker:I wanted to be able to go to Italy with my kids.
Speaker3:
Speaker:That was one of the dreams my wife and I had.
Speaker3:
Speaker:We wanted to spend a whole summer in Italy and I knew that
Speaker3:
Speaker:I could do that if I was also doing 100% of the production.
Speaker3:
Speaker:And I knew that there was also a lot more people out there
Speaker3:
Speaker:that we needed to help. Because if you looked at the
Speaker3:
Speaker:available market for our products and you look at how many
Speaker3:
Speaker:we were serving, we were super busy, but but still not
Speaker3:
Speaker:being able to serve everybody that needs it.
Speaker3:
Speaker:And so I kind of felt an obligation to bring people on and
Speaker3:
Speaker:do a little bit of scaling, if you will.
Speaker3:
Speaker:And I felt that that was the best time was then when I had
Speaker3:
Speaker:more of a financial backing with corporate, and I could
Speaker3:
Speaker:kind of take the money and invest because I didn't need it
Speaker3:
Speaker:to pay bills. And so I felt like that was the right time
Speaker3:
Speaker:versus when I might feel like my future self would tell me.
Speaker3:
Speaker:I'm a little more tight with finances because I don't have
Speaker3:
Speaker:the corporate money coming in every single month.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Did you have a at this point again, even though you've been
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:doing this for seven years, how long has this been going on
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:now? Since 12.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Contract. Yeah, 12.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Years. Okay. So.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But it's only in the last.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You've been on your own with no corporate job for like the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:last four then.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yes.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Okay. So do you have any regrets or son of a moments that
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you wish you could do it over again, that you would have
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:changed to get you where you are quicker?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Or are you perfectly content with how the pace that you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:have developed your company and your career path and your
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneurial journey? Are you are you good with that?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Or you're like, Oh man, if I'd just known this person or
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:that process or engage this person particular advisor, I
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:could have got there quicker.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is there any advice for people listening that, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:listen, if you could just see that one thing like, oh, pay
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:attention to that blinking light.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. I think, you know, maybe the one thing that I would
Jon Appino:
Speaker:change was, is the the way that you that you prioritize
Jon Appino:
Speaker:initiatives. So I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:have a laundry list of ideas for the company.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, I've got I want to get this done and this done
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and add this and, you know, and do this to the website or
Jon Appino:
Speaker:this to the blog or this to the YouTube.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, there's there's I mean, I have a list of, I think
Jon Appino:
Speaker:still 32 ideas on ways that we can make the company better
Jon Appino:
Speaker:or new products or help more people or, you know, add
Jon Appino:
Speaker:something on or fill in the blank.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And, you know, as and I've slowly kind of ticked things off
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that list, again, knowing that I'm not the type of person
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to just jump in and hire a chief operating officer to start
Jon Appino:
Speaker:knocking stuff off that list.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I think I would have maybe started prioritizing that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:list maybe a little bit different years ago.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I don't know that I regret anything as far as timelines
Jon Appino:
Speaker:go, you know, the way that the corporate job worked out and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:when I hired my first person and how the company started
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and how things kind of fell in place, I think that's that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:as as as as purposeful, I think as it was when my wife and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I made those decisions, I think they were all the right
Jon Appino:
Speaker:ones, you know, because now at 43 with with a nine year old
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and a six, seven year old child, we feel like we're in very
Jon Appino:
Speaker:good financial footing.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I think because we we took our time and did it slow
Jon Appino:
Speaker:again for me, I know I've got friends who quit a store
Jon Appino:
Speaker:director job at at Target.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, we thought our friend was going to be the next
Jon Appino:
Speaker:CEO of Target Corporation 15 years ago.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And he was running a store by himself with a $300 budget
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and 400 employees at the age of 26.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And he quit that job, cashes out his 401.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:K and starts a company, you know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so it's those things that you you I envy people who
Jon Appino:
Speaker:think like that. Unfortunately, it's just not me.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So I think the pace that I did it was appropriate for my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:particular risk tolerance and thresholds.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Yeah, I think your, your, your perseverance, your you didn't
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:want to rush into it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You had very much purpose doing what you needed to do.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I like that again.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:A lot of entrepreneurs wanted all you know, yesterday.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's hard to have somebody that, you know is like, you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:know, I'm not in any hurry. I want to do it right and do
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:it. Do it all I can.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. And again, I've, I've said many times you, I think my,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the, the, the tolerance that I have for risk has, has
Jon Appino:
Speaker:impeded me in many ways from my investing strategy with
Jon Appino:
Speaker:excess funds to the way that I've run the company.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, and I see what some of my friends have done and,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and I'm like, if I had their risk tolerance, my company
Jon Appino:
Speaker:might be three times as big or four times as big.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I may have I may have three times or four times a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:portfolio. I don't know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Or maybe I would have crashed and burned.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But again, I, I can't force that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, I can't force that on, on, on, on myself.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I don't want to try.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I wouldn't sleep at night.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so for my individual risk tolerance, I think the pace
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that I took was very was very reasonable, knowing that my
Jon Appino:
Speaker:mother still thought I was crazy when she said, you're
Jon Appino:
Speaker:going to quit your job, your job, you have insurance and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they give you all these wonderful things.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:How would you ever quit a job?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, how are your kids going to have health insurance?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, so, you know, so for me in my family tree, if you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:will, jumping out of the corporate plane, if you will, and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and starting something on your own is even though it was
Jon Appino:
Speaker:well established, is not the typical in my gene pool.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know, that's a good note on that is that, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneurs, it's, you know, bigger isn't better, better
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:is better. And you don't have to be big to be great.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You don't have to be big to achieve whatever.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's your own individual thing that you really, really want
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:to do. And if you had the right pace to do that, that
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:that's it's that's admirable to do it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Do it that way.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Did you have any you don't have a desire to you know, when
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you're an entrepreneur, you have this everybody has this
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:special thing that their good their superpower that just
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:makes them set aside in their industry or who they are,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:just their shtick that they have.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know, do you have you really evaluated what your
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:superpower is?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I have. No know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I mean, I'm I'm a natural salesman, you know?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so I don't know if that's a superpower or if I'm just a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:salesman. I love talking with people and I'm a nice guy,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you know? So I've never I've never tried to take advantage
Jon Appino:
Speaker:of somebody or try to sell somebody something that they
Jon Appino:
Speaker:don't need for for for a profit.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Know, we've always focused on we're we're a service
Jon Appino:
Speaker:company, so we want to serve you.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And if there's I mean, I said from the beginning, I started
Jon Appino:
Speaker:the company not to make money, but to help people.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I figured if we helped enough people, we'd have plenty
Jon Appino:
Speaker:of money. And so I think I don't know that I'm a
Jon Appino:
Speaker:superpower, but I think I'm a natural sales person.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And at the same time, I'm not selling something for money.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I'm just selling information and advice.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And and so I don't know if you want to call that a sales or
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a superpower, but I think just being a nice guy sometimes
Jon Appino:
Speaker:is is a wonderful thing.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And maybe it's the Brooking, South Dakota roots that stick
Jon Appino:
Speaker:out. And I think it comes through and I think I think
Jon Appino:
Speaker:people appreciate and notice that and and they like working
Jon Appino:
Speaker:with you as a as a result.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:How long ago did you get rid of all your flashy sales coats
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and sport jackets?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I mean, you got to break all these stereotypes.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah, it was nice.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I had really, really nice, you know, business suits and I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:kept warm in case I need to go to a wedding ever.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I want to wear a suit.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Right. And, and that's it.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it was.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah, it was. I got I got rid of them before I even left
Jon Appino:
Speaker:corporate because the dress code has changed from business
Jon Appino:
Speaker:every day to wear some slacks and a collared shirt if you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:want to.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Do you have did you have like when you're doing this,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneurs usually have this this wall that they hit or
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:this insurmountable climbing, you know, steep ascent that
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:they just can't get over. There's this this fear that they
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:have, like, oh, my God.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I just I just can't break through that.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Did you have any of that fear for you that prevented you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:from doing what you wanted to do?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Or were you very it sounds like you were very methodical
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and just whittling that down so it wasn't a big deal.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But was there this big thing that like, my God, everybody's
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:against me, how do I succeed?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Nobody's going to respect me.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I mean, what was that your biggest fear that you had to
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:overcome?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And this is going to sound silly, but it's a totally honest
Jon Appino:
Speaker:answer. It was health care.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, I've got two young kids and we've got friends who
Jon Appino:
Speaker:have gotten gotten cancer and gotten sick.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I've got a dad that has coronary disease.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I've seen people break bones.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I know how much health care costs in America.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so one of it was one of the things was, what are we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:going to do for insurance?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And do you just pay, you know, 30,000 or 35,000 a year for
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a private plan?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, do you jump into a health scare?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Do you you know, do you jump into the to the Affordable
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Care Act and the marketplace?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Do you I mean, and it was it sounds so silly, you know, and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and I had a lot of my friends who were even entrepreneurs
Jon Appino:
Speaker:are like like, please tell me you're not keeping your
Jon Appino:
Speaker:corporate job because of health insurance.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, and it was a hang up for both my wife and I.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And and so so that was it, you know, and we kind of worked
Jon Appino:
Speaker:through it. You know, we we did have both both children
Jon Appino:
Speaker:while we were in corporate.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So, you know, $100 for the birth of a child when my sister
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was paying 3500, I think, for hers with her insurance.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And she works at a hospital, you know, so know.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But that was a big hang up for us and it was a lot of work
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to kind of navigate that process to make both my wife and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:me feel comfortable in the path that we were choosing for
Jon Appino:
Speaker:our family. As far as making sure that that health care
Jon Appino:
Speaker:didn't bankrupt, bankrupt us in the future.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That managing risk gets the hardest part of an entrepreneur,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:because sometimes you have to go all in and risk it all,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and sometimes you don't have to.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You just got to be very purposeful with the way you do it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know, a lot of entrepreneurs like to we and we like to
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:call it you're either doing business is when you're doing
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:your doing your task your thing that you do and and you do
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:that very well and you have a small team around you, but
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you're basically doing all the things that are kind of
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:relevant. And then at some point an entrepreneur likes
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:doing that and there's nothing wrong with that.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's a great business model and sometimes I like to flip
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:the switch where they actually building a business where
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:they're going to bring in and just methodically hire people
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and all those categories to kind of just run it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And you, the entrepreneur, just kind of like being the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:business person where you're really not day to day
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:operations. You want the big picture.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Do you have an affinity to which side of that aisle you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:want to be at? Are you in the middle of there right now
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:transitioning or where you at in that or do you even care?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know. No, I think about all the time.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I've always said, you know, if you're working if you're
Jon Appino:
Speaker:working in the business, you can't work on the business.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know? And so I spent a lot of time working in the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:business, and I couldn't focus on working on it because I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:was so busy just producing, write just daily operational
Jon Appino:
Speaker:things that somebody that the company does.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so, yeah, as I've hired people, I've slowly kind of
Jon Appino:
Speaker:shifted away from having other people do that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I do love talking with physicians.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, I love having those kind of calls.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I love I love when you when you interact with somebody and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and a lot of physicians, they can be arrogant.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So the fact that they're reaching out to us to ask for help
Jon Appino:
Speaker:because they're used to everyone goes to them.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Right. You have all the information.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I'm coming to you to pay you to give me information.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so to have that role reversed when they're looking at
Jon Appino:
Speaker:you and they're so appreciative.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Thank you so much for this.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You've helped my family.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, we'll get an email.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, I got a we have a we helped the physician that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:haven't had a raise in four years get a $70,000 a year
Jon Appino:
Speaker:raise and an extra week of vacation every year.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So over the next three years, $210,000 worth of extra
Jon Appino:
Speaker:income for his family and three extra weeks of vacation
Jon Appino:
Speaker:over those three years to enjoy time with his kids with no
Jon Appino:
Speaker:extra production that he had to do, no extra hours he had
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to put in because of the way that we rolled it out to his
Jon Appino:
Speaker:employer. And so you get those messages from people and it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:brings you joy, number one.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But you see how it impacts their family, number two.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And that's one of those things where I never want to get
Jon Appino:
Speaker:away from that, even though I've got great people that can
Jon Appino:
Speaker:do that now. I really enjoy those emails.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I really enjoy that feedback from the clients, and so I
Jon Appino:
Speaker:don't want to get away from that.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But yeah, we've got lots of really important things that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:we're trying to do to the business, which is why I'm
Jon Appino:
Speaker:spending a lot of time now with, with, with, with people
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that are helping build email funnels and build a YouTube
Jon Appino:
Speaker:channel and, you know, and set up podcast interviews with,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:with physicians that have their own podcasts and, you know,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and add additional products and make our system more
Jon Appino:
Speaker:streamlined and reach more people through social media.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I do want to spend a lot of time doing that in the future
Jon Appino:
Speaker:because I know that the company just has so much more that
Jon Appino:
Speaker:it can do, not from a moneymaking perspective, even though
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I know that will come. But there's just so many more people
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that we can help that I feel almost an obligation to the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:physicians that we don't get to talk to every year that to
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to to show them that we're here so they can find us and we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:can provide some advice to them.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:So a theme I've kind of heard throughout, but you haven't
Julie Smith:
Speaker:really solidified it is.
Julie Smith:
Speaker:I think relationships have been the key to where you are
Julie Smith:
Speaker:today. No matter if it's been in your business and
Julie Smith:
Speaker:corporate, in and around that area, it seems like you've
Julie Smith:
Speaker:really been able to solidify, grow all the relationships
Julie Smith:
Speaker:that you've had to in order to get to where you are.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Mm hmm. Yeah, I would agree.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:It's a there's a trick question that we did about 10 minutes
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:ago that you said you only had a list with 32 things on it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And that is a blatant lie.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:You know it and I know it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That list, if I'm not mistaken, is infinity.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And the hard part as an entrepreneur is staying on point
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:and methodically like you have done very successfully.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And I suspect you're going to continue to do that is to
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:your your head's got all this stuff in it because it is
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:really you see the market, you just know there's unbridled
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:optimism and opportunity everywhere and trying to just do
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:one thing at a time and work on it.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:And I guess that dovetails back to the other question I had
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:earlier is now that you kind of done a process to do this,
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:one thing that you're doing on the next, things that are
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:like the big picture items is that's something that you're
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:going to delegate, empower others to do that, to help get
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:those up to speed quicker, or are you going to still stay
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:on the same methodical step?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Have you figured that part out yet?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. So I work with a like a small business.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I want to have big enough to have like a like a a chief
Jon Appino:
Speaker:operating officer, if you will, that has everybody below
Jon Appino:
Speaker:them and a marketing division and a and a tech team and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything else. So there's a small team that I work with
Jon Appino:
Speaker:that kind of has all those to work part time here and there
Jon Appino:
Speaker:on projects. And as we bring them more projects that we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:delegate more things to them, that's becoming a very
Jon Appino:
Speaker:valuable relationship.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But at the same time, you know, I do I enjoy working on
Jon Appino:
Speaker:these things. And so now the the challenge comes to how do
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I trade my time, you know?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So there are so many things I want to do.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I've got young kids and I refuse to be one of those parents
Jon Appino:
Speaker:who say, Oh, they grew up too fast.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And now all of a sudden, I mean, my kids are nine and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:seven. And I'd like to I'd like to think that I've got nine
Jon Appino:
Speaker:more years with my son before he takes off and goes to get
Jon Appino:
Speaker:a job or goes to university or or starts a business.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But I realize that that 17 year old.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Sons are not going to want to hang out with me all summer
Jon Appino:
Speaker:long. They're going to want to go hang out with their
Jon Appino:
Speaker:friends. And so I maybe have a solid few years that, you
Jon Appino:
Speaker:know, that he wants to hang out with me and he wants to go
Jon Appino:
Speaker:on trips with me and and I get to see him quite a bit
Jon Appino:
Speaker:before he's out running around with his friends, driving
Jon Appino:
Speaker:cars or walking around or whatever.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So, so I'm trying to kind of balance now my, the, the level
Jon Appino:
Speaker:of work that I want to do.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:At the same time, the obligation that I feel to the company
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and the people who I get to work with to grow it and add
Jon Appino:
Speaker:products and that revenue and everything else.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it's it's that internal conflict.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:You know, I wish that I had 40 hour days.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Unfortunately, I don't.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And so so I'll kind of have to make do with balancing
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything out in the interim.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I feel like if you went back to about ten years ago when you
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:were working the 12000 hours a week at three in the
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:morning, that's when it's going to get done.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But no, you've got a little soft and that's okay, but
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:you're figuring it out as you go.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But no.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I don't know that that's that may be an accurate statement.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:As far as as far as a little bit soft.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I wouldn't disagree with that.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:I'm kidding, of course.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Well, is there a would you like to give a little plug for
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:your company so we can put this on the podcast so people
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:can find you if they need to?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, contract diagnostics, you know, you type it
Jon Appino:
Speaker:into the Google machine and it pops up.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it's contract diagnostics dot com.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And again, it's so easy what we do, we help physicians
Jon Appino:
Speaker:understand their contracts and their compensation
Jon Appino:
Speaker:structures. So if any physicians listen, you know, they can
Jon Appino:
Speaker:call us. We have a free 15 minute consult.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They can call us up and or they can book a consult and we
Jon Appino:
Speaker:can just talk with them for 15 minutes.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:No charge. We have a couple of products from a compensation
Jon Appino:
Speaker:analysis to a contract review on our website.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And if somebody knows a physician, they can send them over
Jon Appino:
Speaker:to the site. We have free webinars and all kinds of free
Jon Appino:
Speaker:stuff, free resources all over the site.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it's one of those things that if they want to find us,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they can within a pretty good job of of putting ourselves
Jon Appino:
Speaker:out there on the line.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Is it fair to say that you've got to kick butt stereo system
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:in your car because you're, you know, a guy?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I don't I have a I love I have a I've kind of over that now,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:but I still am into customizing vehicles.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:I have a Toyota forerunner that is an overland vehicle.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:So it's got a tent and it's got all custom wheels and lift
Jon Appino:
Speaker:kits and kitchens in the back and all that kind of stuff.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I love getting up into the mountains and relaxing and
Jon Appino:
Speaker:and kind of getting away from things from time to time.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:But it definitely has a factory stereo, which for me is
Jon Appino:
Speaker:just.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Fine, more than adequate.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:But boy, back in the day you had to get the cool stuff.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Back in the day. Absolutely.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:What was the brand back in the day?
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That was the one that they couldn't get just out of
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:curiosity. Kicker.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:Kicker, huh?
Jon Appino:
Speaker:Yeah. There were subwoofers and we wanted kicker.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And I think Rockford Fosgate was another one.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:And we want to Kenwood as far as like Dacs everything, the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:whole market has changed so much because with with with new
Jon Appino:
Speaker:cars and touch screens and apple CarPlay, I mean,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:everything is different. Oh, different now as far as adding
Jon Appino:
Speaker:secondary systems and everything else, I, I know the
Jon Appino:
Speaker:market's changed quite a bit, but, but the stereo company
Jon Appino:
Speaker:is still very successful.
Jon Appino:
Speaker:They put stuff in boats and campers, they still do cars,
Jon Appino:
Speaker:they do old retro cars, they do remote starts and older
Jon Appino:
Speaker:vehicles. And it's a it's a pretty cool it's a pretty cool
Jon Appino:
Speaker:company back and bringing still.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:That's fantastic. Well, John, I really appreciate you taking
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:the time today to come on and hopefully this will help some
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneurs out there realize that there's more than one
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:way to get to through your journey to get your
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:entrepreneurial success.
Glenn Harper:
Speaker:This is Glen Harper, Julie Smith.