Jon Appino from Contract Diagnostics

Glenn Harper:

Welcome to another edition, The Empowering Entrepreneurs,

Glenn Harper:

The Harper and Company Way. I'm Glenn Harper

Julie Smith:

I'm Julie Smith.

Glenn Harper:

Good to see you, Julie. What's up today?

Julie Smith:

You're a little red. What happened this week in college

Julie Smith:

graduation?

Glenn Harper:

And I was under the welder at the stadium, watched my

Glenn Harper:

daughter graduate. And apparently you're supposed to wear

Glenn Harper:

sunscreen for that when you're there for 4 hours and got

Glenn Harper:

you.

Julie Smith:

You missed that memo.

Glenn Harper:

But yeah, but we'll get it next time.

Glenn Harper:

Daughter Number three It will be in a couple of years and

Glenn Harper:

I'll wear the big hat so I can be a safari guy.

Glenn Harper:

Well, I just wanted to start today.

Glenn Harper:

We've got a guest today named Jon Appino, and he's a fellow

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneur. He's the brains behind Contract Diagnostics,

Glenn Harper:

a physician contract review.

Glenn Harper:

It's a company that provides industry specific data.

Glenn Harper:

John will review the physician's specific, specific

Glenn Harper:

contract and then partner with them to negotiate the more

Glenn Harper:

favorable contracts, which sounds kind of intriguing.

Glenn Harper:

And, John, it looks like you're welcome and it looks like

Glenn Harper:

you're from Brookings, South Dakota.

Glenn Harper:

Is that true?

Jon Appino:

Big city of dreams.

Jon Appino:

I'm absolutely.

Glenn Harper:

It's the craziest thing.

Glenn Harper:

You're the second guest in our and our like window here.

Glenn Harper:

That is from Brookings, South Dakota, which is in the

Glenn Harper:

fourth largest city in South Dakota, which is really cool.

Glenn Harper:

Is that how you decide to go to South Dakota State there?

Jon Appino:

Unfortunately, I took the easy path and I did jump out of

Jon Appino:

South Dakota for my undergrad.

Jon Appino:

I stayed right there in my hometown and it was nice.

Jon Appino:

My mom was close. I had tons of friends, but it was the

Jon Appino:

easy thing to do. I wish I would have done it differently,

Jon Appino:

but looking back. But.

Jon Appino:

But, yeah, that's why I became a jackrabbit.

Jon Appino:

And I'm not.

Jon Appino:

I'm curious on who your other guest was.

Jon Appino:

Well.

Glenn Harper:

I heard I heard that you took the bookmobile for a joyride.

Glenn Harper:

Is that true?

Jon Appino:

Well, I'm.

Glenn Harper:

Sorry. The bookmobile.

Glenn Harper:

Apparently, south coast states got this one weird

Glenn Harper:

automobile thing that they do, and it's like a whole

Glenn Harper:

traditional thing for, like, the last 60 years or

Glenn Harper:

something. I didn't know if you were that.

Glenn Harper:

I just heard a rumor. I was just checking.

Jon Appino:

Oh, I have not stolen any bookmobile, but hobo days is our

Jon Appino:

big like our big our day and homecoming or whatever.

Jon Appino:

And it's a big, giant party, and it's a ton of fun for

Jon Appino:

sure.

Glenn Harper:

Well, did you grow up on the agricultural side of it or are

Glenn Harper:

you a city kid?

Jon Appino:

No, a city kid from South Dakota, the fourth largest, which

Jon Appino:

is 25,000 people, maybe now, you know, so a city for South

Jon Appino:

Dakota. And then I moved to Rapid City, which is a bigger

Jon Appino:

city, you know, about 100,000.

Jon Appino:

And then I moved to Kansas City, a bigger city, two and one

Jon Appino:

half million. But all my friends from New York and from San

Jon Appino:

Francisco still called Kansas City a little tiny cow town.

Jon Appino:

Is that funny, I guess, based on your perspective?

Glenn Harper:

Well, they just fly over it so they don't really know.

Glenn Harper:

Right. Did you end up in Kansas City for the ribs, the

Glenn Harper:

royals or the chiefs or just did happen to go there?

Jon Appino:

No, I went down there for work, actually, and I had some

Jon Appino:

family there. And it was an easy transition from where I

Jon Appino:

was working in Rapid City after my undergrad.

Jon Appino:

And then there was a bigger job, same company with a

Jon Appino:

promotion and more money in Kansas City.

Jon Appino:

And it was the path that I was in at that time in

Jon Appino:

corporate, and that was like a great next step.

Jon Appino:

It was a bigger city, more opportunity.

Jon Appino:

Family there, still the Midwest.

Jon Appino:

And it was still a big move for for us.

Jon Appino:

But at the same time, it was an easy move with the company.

Glenn Harper:

Well, you wanted to you wanted to be have a real job and be

Glenn Harper:

in the corporate America. Is that what your goal was at the

Glenn Harper:

time?

Jon Appino:

It was. I worked in pharmaceuticals and in biotech and a

Jon Appino:

couple of different companies and many different roles.

Jon Appino:

I had lots of different roles in the organization, in the

Jon Appino:

sales and the marketing and contracting and everything

Jon Appino:

else. And it was a it was an interesting I learned a ton

Jon Appino:

and it's what ended up leading me to find a niche, which is

Jon Appino:

what drives me today and kind of crave the passion behind

Jon Appino:

contract diagnostics.

Glenn Harper:

Had you been a entrepreneur before?

Glenn Harper:

Growing up as a kid, your hustling, you know, yards and

Glenn Harper:

stuff like that, or was it not so much?

Jon Appino:

Oh, funny enough.

Jon Appino:

So I started a stereo company Car Stereos when I was 17,

Jon Appino:

not because I wanted to have a big company and make a lot

Jon Appino:

of money. There were certain brands of stereo equipment

Jon Appino:

that we wanted in Brookings, and there was one, one small

Jon Appino:

stereo company, and they didn't have the good brands and we

Jon Appino:

didn't feel like they gave the customer a good deal.

Jon Appino:

They didn't have the right brands, they didn't have good

Jon Appino:

service. They were more like We wanted to sell and push

Jon Appino:

stuff on you than provide value and service.

Jon Appino:

And so my friend and I started a company at 17 just so we

Jon Appino:

could get our brands, and it did well.

Jon Appino:

It's still going successfully.

Jon Appino:

I don't have a participation in it now.

Jon Appino:

Jon Appino:

Maybe, I don't know, maybe the Internet was slower to catch

Jon Appino:

on, but you could buy stuff online in the late nineties,

Jon Appino:

and I was one of the few people who would go on and

Jon Appino:

actually trust this computer with my credit card.

Jon Appino:

And I set up a like a supplement distribution out of my

Jon Appino:

dorm where I would get protein powders and create teens and

Jon Appino:

vitamins in and sell them to the football players and the

Jon Appino:

volleyball players and everything else.

Jon Appino:

Again, not to make any money, not because I wanted to have

Jon Appino:

a big company. I just wanted my protein powder for free.

Jon Appino:

And so I got to meet a lot of good people.

Jon Appino:

And I went and met with the football players and the coaches

Jon Appino:

and we put packages together for the basketball players for

Jon Appino:

four for summer training.

Jon Appino:

I think the nearest GNC was one overpriced and it was in

Jon Appino:

Sioux Falls, which was a 45 minute drive, so you could buy

Jon Appino:

protein powder in Brookings.

Jon Appino:

So I set up a minimum order with a company called DPS

Jon Appino:

Nutrition. I think they're still around today.

Jon Appino:

And I used to get boxes and boxes of boxes delivered to my

Jon Appino:

dorm room and I would sell it out of my dorm.

Jon Appino:

So and that's it.

Jon Appino:

Maybe it's been kind of built in.

Jon Appino:

And then I went into corporate and I was in corporate for

Jon Appino:

quite some time. And you know, at first, at first it worked

Jon Appino:

really well. And then I think I just I got sick of some of

Jon Appino:

the. Some of the the box, if you will, that corporate puts

Jon Appino:

you in. And when you want it, when you're creative and you

Jon Appino:

think out of the box like an entrepreneur does, and you try

Jon Appino:

to apply some of those in the corporate space, sometimes

Jon Appino:

they say, well, that's not how we do it here.

Jon Appino:

That's against policy.

Jon Appino:

Or You can't do that.

Jon Appino:

Or, you know, that's not your job at somebody else's.

Jon Appino:

And sometimes you, you, you stick out and sometimes you

Jon Appino:

decide to go your own way, which I ultimately did.

Julie Smith:

So how many times did you get told you can't do something

Julie Smith:

before you thought, all right, I got to do something

Julie Smith:

different?

Jon Appino:

Oh, I don't know.

Jon Appino:

I don't know.

Jon Appino:

But it was one of those, like, you know, whether I was I

Jon Appino:

wanted to I wanted to work my way through the organization,

Jon Appino:

and I wanted to live in New York in a big, high rise.

Jon Appino:

And I wanted to work 80 hour weeks and wear a $2,000 suit

Jon Appino:

every day. And that's what I wanted.

Jon Appino:

And I wanted to have the big job with the big money.

Jon Appino:

And and and I thought I wanted and then once I tried to

Jon Appino:

kind of create my path and that's not how it was done, I

Jon Appino:

just kind of got sour on it.

Jon Appino:

And there was a promotion that thank goodness it didn't

Jon Appino:

happen going to Denver.

Jon Appino:

And that kind of soured me even more.

Jon Appino:

And then I just I started looking at other options and I

Jon Appino:

started contract diagnostics, which started out at a

Jon Appino:

separate company, and then just kind of morphed into what

Jon Appino:

it is today.

Jon Appino:

And I just kind of started it on the side, you know, and I

Jon Appino:

work nights and weekends and it took some time and it

Jon Appino:

provided some financial stability for my family as it as it

Jon Appino:

started to be profitable.

Jon Appino:

But I didn't need the money so I could put it back in.

Jon Appino:

So yeah, I don't regret my time in corporate at all.

Jon Appino:

I mean, I learned a ton.

Jon Appino:

I met some great lifelong friends.

Jon Appino:

They paid well so I could live off of that, so I could

Jon Appino:

invest in the company at an early age.

Jon Appino:

I didn't have to worry about making a profit.

Jon Appino:

I could worry about the customers and making a good

Jon Appino:

product. And so so yeah it's been an interesting and

Jon Appino:

industry. Well, for sure.

Glenn Harper:

Well, it's kind of funny. It's from selling stereos and the

Glenn Harper:

protein powder. And then now this contract services you're

Glenn Harper:

selling what people didn't even know they needed.

Glenn Harper:

And you're like, they don't even know they have a better

Glenn Harper:

stereo, but I'm going to go sell them.

Glenn Harper:

They don't even know the protein powder because they all

Glenn Harper:

eat meat. But I'm going to give them protein powder and

Glenn Harper:

they don't even know that they'll need a whole big law firm

Glenn Harper:

to do a contract.

Glenn Harper:

They can use me to do this.

Glenn Harper:

So how about that?

Glenn Harper:

That's. That's definitely the trail of an entrepreneur, for

Glenn Harper:

sure.

Jon Appino:

Yeah, well, we kind of you know, when I was looking at this

Jon Appino:

market, you know, 12 years ago or so, there really wasn't

Jon Appino:

like there wasn't like a national brand.

Jon Appino:

And I had lots of friends who were physicians who who could

Jon Appino:

who could kind of give me guidance.

Jon Appino:

I said, Well, who'd you use for this service?

Jon Appino:

And, you know, they didn't know they should, or they called

Jon Appino:

some local attorney who didn't understand physicians and

Jon Appino:

physician contracts. And, you know, they if they were

Jon Appino:

living in Kansas City, but they were starting a job in

Jon Appino:

Texas, do I get a lawyer in Kansas City?

Jon Appino:

Do I call somewhere in Texas?

Jon Appino:

How do I find someone in Texas?

Jon Appino:

Do I meet with them? Do I have a phone call?

Jon Appino:

Do we email what's best?

Jon Appino:

There was no real guidance and there's no real national

Jon Appino:

company that could just do everything in all 50 states.

Jon Appino:

So we found a nation and yeah, and now we have a new

Jon Appino:

product that I feel hundreds of thousands of physicians

Jon Appino:

need. And now we're back in the process of telling them,

Jon Appino:

you know, teaching them that they do absolutely need this

Jon Appino:

product. And I mentioned to my my team all the time that I

Jon Appino:

Jon Appino:

and you should try it. You need this in your pocket.

Jon Appino:

It's going to revolutionize the way you live.

Jon Appino:

And people would say, What are you talking about?

Jon Appino:

There's no way I need this thing, you know?

Jon Appino:

So it's it's it's fun and challenging at the same time.

Glenn Harper:

We thought this would be a great time.

Glenn Harper:

Segue into tell us, what is it that your company does?

Glenn Harper:

It sounds like you're kind of practicing law, but not

Glenn Harper:

really. But you're in all the states.

Glenn Harper:

But how does that how does that work when you're giving

Glenn Harper:

this kind of advice for clients?

Glenn Harper:

Tell us what you kind of do.

Glenn Harper:

I'm a physician and I have to, you know, get hired in.

Glenn Harper:

I got to sign a contract.

Glenn Harper:

Do I call you first?

Glenn Harper:

How does that work?

Jon Appino:

Yeah. So we've got great attorneys that work here, but we

Jon Appino:

don't operate like a law firm, so we don't give legal

Jon Appino:

advice. We're consultants, if you will.

Jon Appino:

So we understand the way that a physician should understand

Jon Appino:

risk in a contract so we can go through it with him or her

Jon Appino:

and really kind of explain it in plain English.

Jon Appino:

As far as what's clear in the document, if something's not

Jon Appino:

clear, we don't interpret it.

Jon Appino:

We tell the physician that they need to go better

Jon Appino:

understand it or have it be more clear in the agreement.

Jon Appino:

But we spend a lot of time focusing on compensation.

Jon Appino:

So physician compensation has changed dramatically over the

Jon Appino:

years and some of them are paid on productivity and some of

Jon Appino:

them have very dynamic productivity structures.

Jon Appino:

I mean, some compensation plans will be six or seven total

Jon Appino:

pages long in themselves and they have no idea what our

Jon Appino:

views are or what collection ratios are fair or, you know,

Jon Appino:

how to analyze a report as far as their profitability or

Jon Appino:

not. So we spend a lot of time just discussing and

Jon Appino:

explaining what their particular situation is, comparing

Jon Appino:

what they have to the market value.

Jon Appino:

So if you're a cardiologist in Chicago, it's much different

Jon Appino:

than a cardiologist in Texas or a cardiologist in

Jon Appino:

California. But a cardiologist in you know, in in San Jose

Jon Appino:

is much different than one in Sacramento and much different

Jon Appino:

than one in San Diego.

Jon Appino:

And if you're at a hospital or a small practice, they're

Jon Appino:

also dramatically different.

Jon Appino:

So since this is all we do, we can focus and talk to the

Jon Appino:

physician in a way that a physician needs to be talked

Jon Appino:

with, because, of course, a cardiologist has a different

Jon Appino:

personality typically than a pediatrician, different than a

Jon Appino:

surgeon. So we're able to kind of talk to each individual

Jon Appino:

physician in their language and kind of coach them on.

Jon Appino:

We might have to we might have to really motivate a

Jon Appino:

pediatrician to ask for more money because they're so

Jon Appino:

sweet. They're so kind.

Jon Appino:

They would they how do I how do I ask for $5,000?

Jon Appino:

And we sometimes have to tame the surgeon because they want

Jon Appino:

to go in and say, I'm going to ask for 50,000.

Jon Appino:

And, you know, well, maybe that's not market norm.

Jon Appino:

So we basically just get to discuss with them and we give

Jon Appino:

them guidance on where the risk is and what how they could

Jon Appino:

better discuss it, how they can understand it and how they

Jon Appino:

can have a good discussion with the employer both now while

Jon Appino:

they have the contract and then moving forward throughout

Jon Appino:

their career. So I hate to say, like, I, it's, it's, it's

Jon Appino:

simple. It's not easy.

Jon Appino:

We just look at contract and we just talk to doctors and

Jon Appino:

there's there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the

Jon Appino:

background with compensation data, understanding market

Jon Appino:

trends, understanding how different markets might move from

Jon Appino:

one to the next and and everything else.

Jon Appino:

So simple, not easy, I guess is an easy way to say it.

Julie Smith:

So, John, I'm curious, you were in your corporate job doing

Julie Smith:

what you do.

Julie Smith:

Where was the aha moment to create this to see this need to

Julie Smith:

fulfill it? Obviously you did both for a little bit of

Julie Smith:

time, but did someone come to you and ask for advice or

Julie Smith:

what kind of made you have that idea or that moment?

Jon Appino:

So in my and in some of my roles, I interacted with

Jon Appino:

physicians on a very routine basis.

Jon Appino:

And I would just always I was always questioning, you know,

Jon Appino:

what's the worst part of your day?

Jon Appino:

What's what's a hassle when you're going through this one?

Jon Appino:

I was just trying to become get to know them and be more be

Jon Appino:

friends with them. But two, I was just curious and one of

Jon Appino:

the things that a lot of physicians kept saying was when

Jon Appino:

they finished their training, the process from I finished

Jon Appino:

my medical training to I'm going to go get a job.

Jon Appino:

It's very, very challenging.

Jon Appino:

I mean, physicians all get jobs.

Jon Appino:

We hear about the physician shortage.

Jon Appino:

It's unlike a college grad who tries to get a job in

Jon Appino:

accounting and they can't find anything in accounting.

Jon Appino:

But physicians always find jobs that might not be the ideal

Jon Appino:

location or the ideal place, but they always get jobs.

Jon Appino:

And then with most opportunities, a contract comes with it.

Jon Appino:

But we didn't want to work on the contract at first because

Jon Appino:

all the physicians said the process of finding a job is

Jon Appino:

difficult. The process of relocating all of our stuff is

Jon Appino:

challenging. They typically finish their training in June,

Jon Appino:

but they don't start jobs until August or even September

Jon Appino:

once they're board certified and they've got credentials at

Jon Appino:

the hospital and everything else.

Jon Appino:

So there's that lag in there where they don't have

Jon Appino:

financial means. Sometimes they don't have a job.

Jon Appino:

So they're kind of waiting and doing paperwork and moving

Jon Appino:

and everything else. But they said their recruiters, all my

Jon Appino:

friends said the recruiters were a pain in the side.

Jon Appino:

They said this contract thing is a pain in the side.

Jon Appino:

They said Just transitioning, just understanding what comes

Jon Appino:

next is just a hassle.

Jon Appino:

So I was going to create a company called New Cloud

Jon Appino:

Medical, which is actually the parent company of contract

Jon Appino:

diagnostics at DBA and knew Cloud was going to do

Jon Appino:

everything. We going to reinvent the entire thing.

Jon Appino:

We were going to reinvent recruiting.

Jon Appino:

We're going to reinvent contract reviews.

Jon Appino:

We're going to reinvent I mean, I was going to have a card

Jon Appino:

that they can go down to their local BMW dealership and get

Jon Appino:

a discount on a BMW if they wanted to or a moving company,

Jon Appino:

they could get a discount.

Jon Appino:

We're going to have a real estate division and a banking

Jon Appino:

division and an investment division and sell them life

Jon Appino:

insurance and disability insurance.

Jon Appino:

And we were going to do everything and reinvent it all.

Jon Appino:

And and so that's the way the company started.

Jon Appino:

And of course, I realize you can't do everything great.

Jon Appino:

And one of the things I didn't like around the recruiting

Jon Appino:

thing was all the phone calls and all the back and forth

Jon Appino:

emails and, you know, at the at the stereo company, people

Jon Appino:

would come in, you'd help them, you'd sell them a stereo,

Jon Appino:

and it was transactional.

Jon Appino:

You buy something from me for $200 and I make $35 or

Jon Appino:

whatever. There's a transaction.

Jon Appino:

I like that I could go home at the end of the day saying I

Jon Appino:

worked for 8 hours. I got to help five people and four

Jon Appino:

people bought something from me and I made $100 or so.

Jon Appino:

But with recruiting, much like with real estate, you might

Jon Appino:

show a ton of houses or you might make a ton of phone calls

Jon Appino:

and then nobody signs and nobody calls you back.

Jon Appino:

It's hard to decide if my day was well spent or not, and

Jon Appino:

you might make $20,000 on some random day or 30,000 on some

Jon Appino:

random day with one phone call.

Jon Appino:

But you might go a month before you do that.

Jon Appino:

And I didn't like that.

Jon Appino:

And so we did some contract reviews and I like that

Jon Appino:

transactional nature.

Jon Appino:

We provide you a service and knowledge and you give us

Jon Appino:

money and and that we can do it again and again and again.

Jon Appino:

And then I start looking at the market and talking to other

Jon Appino:

friends and I realized that there was no company that was

Jon Appino:

really looking at this thing on a national basis that was

Jon Appino:

just a national brand that anybody can call in any state

Jon Appino:

and get good advice from people who knew what they were

Jon Appino:

doing. So that's where we kind of started contract or I

Jon Appino:

started contract diagnostics and we kind of dropped

Jon Appino:

everything else because I said I'd rather be world class at

Jon Appino:

one thing then sort of kind of good at a whole bunch of

Jon Appino:

things. And so then we started contract or I started

Jon Appino:

contract diagnostics.

Jon Appino:

I think 12 years ago, maybe it was we've had some copycats,

Jon Appino:

which is really kind of cool, I think, as far as other

Jon Appino:

companies now, which is fun.

Jon Appino:

But, but it started with something else and it ended up

Jon Appino:

being totally different than what I had initially had the

Jon Appino:

vision for.

Julie Smith:

So in the beginning, and as you went through that process of

Julie Smith:

starting it, did you have a mentor or someone that was

Julie Smith:

really by your side that you could ask that advice and get

Julie Smith:

the solid truth instead of maybe what you wanted to hear?

Jon Appino:

You know, nobody like nobody that I would say I met with

Jon Appino:

like every single week, you know, and they sat down and

Jon Appino:

they grilled me.

Jon Appino:

You know, my dad worked for a guy that in Brookings, Larson

Jon Appino:

Storm doors and Dale Larson is a fantastic person and a

Jon Appino:

wonderful entrepreneur and now a brilliant philanthropist.

Jon Appino:

But I mean, I guess his whole life has been and I would

Jon Appino:

talk to Dale from time to time, and he would you know, he

Jon Appino:

would kind of just give me global advice.

Jon Appino:

You know, here's how to think of this.

Jon Appino:

Here's how to give back, you know, here's how to treat

Jon Appino:

people if you ever hire anybody.

Jon Appino:

But it wasn't necessarily like I was bringing my business

Jon Appino:

problems to him. It was more kind of just global advice.

Jon Appino:

And I had a handful of relationships like that that I could

Jon Appino:

get kind of global advice on or coaches, if you will.

Jon Appino:

But nobody that I could really sit down and say, this is my

Jon Appino:

problem with this company or this website or this

Jon Appino:

competitor or this pricing for packaging.

Jon Appino:

It was just all kind of I just it was just kind of me in my

Jon Appino:

basement, sleepless nights and a lot of weekends and and

Jon Appino:

everything else.

Glenn Harper:

You know, it's it's a funny thing listening to you, because

Glenn Harper:

I think one of the cool parts about this is that you had

Glenn Harper:

already been indoctrinated talking to surgeons and doctors

Glenn Harper:

and and all these folks, and they just think about things

Glenn Harper:

in a little different way.

Glenn Harper:

And you just got to learn how to communicate with them and

Glenn Harper:

listen to what they're really saying, because really they

Glenn Harper:

just want to go do doctoring stuff.

Glenn Harper:

They don't really want to do anything else, but they just

Glenn Harper:

probably didn't feel like anybody ever listened or nor that

Glenn Harper:

they even know the question to ask about the other stuff.

Glenn Harper:

And we see that doctors, they just don't know the financial

Glenn Harper:

part of things and what it means for taxes and retirement

Glenn Harper:

and all those protections like you were mentioning, those

Glenn Harper:

other services that you were going to provide.

Glenn Harper:

You know, there's a great opportunity for that because, you

Glenn Harper:

know, people really want someone they can trust to do all

Glenn Harper:

those things. And so I think it's interesting that you

Glenn Harper:

really didn't need to know what to sell.

Glenn Harper:

You just knew how to talk to people and you just listen to

Glenn Harper:

them. And all of a sudden, there you are.

Glenn Harper:

Now you've had to figure out how to package it.

Glenn Harper:

How did you come up with your packaging process and

Glenn Harper:

knowing, Hey, I got to be able to scale this thing.

Glenn Harper:

I don't want to just deal with ten clients.

Glenn Harper:

I want to deal with thousands and not only going to be

Glenn Harper:

thousands of clients, but they're going to start in these

Glenn Harper:

three states. And then in five years, doctors always move.

Glenn Harper:

I'm going to have to be in these 12 states and then three

Glenn Harper:

more years I got to be in 50 states.

Glenn Harper:

How did you figure that part out?

Jon Appino:

I did a lot of the work on my own at first.

Jon Appino:

And, you know, I had some contractors that I would have,

Jon Appino:

you know, help out with various things.

Jon Appino:

But I think the company just kind of organically grew.

Jon Appino:

And I put more time in and less time in corporate and more

Jon Appino:

time in the company and less time in corporate.

Jon Appino:

And then when we got to the right, when I was at my

Jon Appino:

capacity where we just couldn't help any more people, I

Jon Appino:

thought we could raise prices and maybe we'll get less

Jon Appino:

business and we'll still make the same amount of money.

Jon Appino:

Or I could bring somebody else on, you know.

Jon Appino:

And so I brought someone to help a little bit, you know,

Jon Appino:

and we're still a small company.

Jon Appino:

We just got a handful of associates here that work with us.

Jon Appino:

But, you know, over the years, I've always, you know, I've

Jon Appino:

appropriately scaled and maybe that's, you know, maybe my

Jon Appino:

risk tolerance for a typical entrepreneur is much less

Jon Appino:

because I haven't cashed out the 401.

Jon Appino:

K and hired, you know, five people at once and then worried

Jon Appino:

about it later. I've just kind of very slowly scaled over

Jon Appino:

the last 12 years, and it was probably just me for the

Jon Appino:

first five years where I did everything from billing to,

Jon Appino:

you know, to accounting to all the emails, to paperwork.

Jon Appino:

And I had like some contractors that I would have help with

Jon Appino:

some attorneys in that thing.

Jon Appino:

But, but then I brought somebody on to help with the books

Jon Appino:

and then I brought somebody on to help with contracts.

Jon Appino:

And then I brought and then my, my at the time, the gal who

Jon Appino:

was helping me with billing, she took on more tasks and

Jon Appino:

more roles and she went from 7 hours a week to now.

Jon Appino:

I mean, she's probably seven or 9 hours a day, you know, so

Jon Appino:

so we just kind of appropriately and slowly kind of gone

Jon Appino:

from there. But I did a lot of the work at first.

Jon Appino:

And, you know, it's those late nights and those those

Jon Appino:

weekends that you give up that I think build.

Jon Appino:

And you have that grit that builds a lot of character when

Jon Appino:

you're starting a company and then you look back and you

Jon Appino:

appreciate it much more when your schedule's a little more

Jon Appino:

open.

Glenn Harper:

This seems really weird that like it just didn't magically

Glenn Harper:

Glenn Harper:

employees. You mean it takes time and effort and sacrifice?

Glenn Harper:

Is that you telling us something different that other

Glenn Harper:

people tell us is so weird?

Jon Appino:

I don't know if that's a pass now with, you know, bitcoin

Jon Appino:

and all that stuff or if it's if it's still one of those

Jon Appino:

things that, you know, you find something that you really

Jon Appino:

enjoy. You put your heart soul into it and and you work it

Jon Appino:

till you're blue in the face.

Jon Appino:

And you don't give up and you provide good products and

Jon Appino:

then and things happen.

Glenn Harper:

I think that's, you know, this, this, this podcast is all

Glenn Harper:

about the journey and how to get from A to B, from, you

Glenn Harper:

know, real job to an entrepreneur.

Glenn Harper:

And so when you had real job and decided to do this thing

Glenn Harper:

on the side, how long did it take for you to be double

Glenn Harper:

dipping before you said, you know, that's it, it's time I'm

Glenn Harper:

going full on in?

Glenn Harper:

How long a time was that, you think?

Jon Appino:

Again from my my individual risk tolerance is probably much

Jon Appino:

different than a lot of typical brewers.

Jon Appino:

I would say maybe it was seven years.

Glenn Harper:

Oh, wow.

Jon Appino:

Well, maybe eight years.

Jon Appino:

And it just kind of again, it just kind of slowly kind of

Jon Appino:

came on and I will schedule at my in my in corporate.

Jon Appino:

So it wasn't an 8 to 5 Monday through Friday type of job.

Jon Appino:

Some days were longer, some days were shorter.

Jon Appino:

You know, some nights I worked and then I took the other

Jon Appino:

the next day off. And so the job was was very flexible and

Jon Appino:

more results based than time based.

Jon Appino:

And I had great results.

Jon Appino:

And so my time wasn't questioned.

Jon Appino:

But, but yeah, it probably took that long, which again, it

Jon Appino:

allowed me to not only bring the company up, but as I was

Jon Appino:

working, you know, I could invest a little in the company.

Jon Appino:

But it also because the company ended up making two or

Jon Appino:

three times what my, my, my salary in corporate was.

Jon Appino:

And so it wasn't a thing about I should leave because I can

Jon Appino:

afford to leave. But then it became, How do we feel again?

Jon Appino:

My risk tolerance might be less than some entrepreneurs.

Jon Appino:

So we spent time paying off debt.

Jon Appino:

We spent time saving money for the kids.

Jon Appino:

My wife was working a lot at the time as well, and we spent

Jon Appino:

time paying off the house and, you know, and really kind of

Jon Appino:

getting in a solid financial position, both with contract

Jon Appino:

diagnostics and us individually.

Jon Appino:

And and then we made a decision to leave corporate together.

Jon Appino:

And it actually took it was actually we made a decision to

Jon Appino:

leave on a particular day.

Jon Appino:

And it was actually the plan was kind of blown up because

Jon Appino:

the company it was a fantastic company.

Jon Appino:

But they actually came to us.

Jon Appino:

They were they were going to fold the division that I was

Jon Appino:

working in because it was a product that was running off of

Jon Appino:

a patent and pharmaceuticals and biotech.

Jon Appino:

And so as that product was coming off of the patent, they

Jon Appino:

didn't have any where to assign the division.

Jon Appino:

So they announced a year, a year in advance, I think a year

Jon Appino:

and a couple of months in advance that they're going to

Jon Appino:

dissolve the division and give everybody a severance

Jon Appino:

package. So it's a little ironic that they actually paid me

Jon Appino:

to leave. So it was kind of everything worked out great.

Jon Appino:

But again, we had made a decision that we're going to leave

Jon Appino:

on this particular day, on this particular month and the

Jon Appino:

month before, we are going to throw the towel in, if you

Jon Appino:

will, and give all the stock back and say, keep the job and

Jon Appino:

the salary and everything.

Jon Appino:

They announce that if I would wanted to stick around for a

Jon Appino:

year, they were going to pay me to leave.

Jon Appino:

And again, I didn't hate the job and the flexible schedule

Jon Appino:

was was great and I had friends that I worked with.

Jon Appino:

So it wasn't like maybe some or they hate their job and are

Jon Appino:

grinding 8 to 5 Monday through Friday.

Jon Appino:

I was able to spend a lot of time on contract diagnostics

Jon Appino:

while still meeting expectations at corporate.

Jon Appino:

And then we kind of made a decision with my wife to stick

Jon Appino:

around for another year just from a financial decision.

Jon Appino:

It was a good one to make, and I didn't think that leaving

Jon Appino:

that job to focus on contract diagnostics at the time was,

Jon Appino:

was something that that that was urgent.

Jon Appino:

Urgent. But then we did book a trip to take our kids to

Jon Appino:

Jon Appino:

ended up leaving corporate.

Jon Appino:

And, and then we kind of celebrated by spending the entire

Jon Appino:

Jon Appino:

So it worked out well.

Glenn Harper:

Is there a way I can get the number of that cushy corporate

Glenn Harper:

job so I can apply for that?

Glenn Harper:

That sounds awesome.

Jon Appino:

Well, it was it. I mean, I hate to say it wasn't cushy.

Jon Appino:

It was a ton of work. And you had to be very good and very

Jon Appino:

talented at the position.

Jon Appino:

But but yeah, it worked out well.

Jon Appino:

And I still I still talk with my friends at the company

Jon Appino:

and, you know, and I still miss everybody.

Jon Appino:

I miss the camaraderie that we used to have, you know,

Jon Appino:

because when you're in a small company, you know, it's just

Jon Appino:

different than when you're with a big company and you've

Jon Appino:

got lots and lots of colleagues and associates.

Julie Smith:

So I was doing the math, John, and I'm not really good at

Julie Smith:

math, so no, she's not.

Julie Smith:

If I did it incorrectly, please correct me.

Julie Smith:

But did you hire your first employee to be a part of your

Julie Smith:

team before you left corporate America?

Jon Appino:

Yes.

Julie Smith:

That's awesome. And so what ultimately led you to make that

Julie Smith:

decision that you decided you needed to delegate and get

Julie Smith:

that off of your plate in order to continue to juggle both

Julie Smith:

those roles?

Speaker3:

The business was strong and my time was was kind of capped.

Speaker3:

And I realized that it has to get bigger than just me

Speaker3:

because I didn't even if I if I left corporate, I wanted

Speaker3:

more of a flexible schedule.

Speaker3:

I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to go from getting up

Speaker3:

at three in the morning to get to the gym, to get both jobs

Speaker3:

done all day long, and then working three nights, four

Speaker3:

nights a week sometimes.

Speaker3:

I worked every Sunday night for eight or nine years.

Speaker3:

Speaker3:

night for four, seven, eight years maybe.

Speaker3:

And I didn't want to do that.

Speaker3:

I wanted to be able to go to Italy with my kids.

Speaker3:

That was one of the dreams my wife and I had.

Speaker3:

We wanted to spend a whole summer in Italy and I knew that

Speaker3:

I could do that if I was also doing 100% of the production.

Speaker3:

And I knew that there was also a lot more people out there

Speaker3:

that we needed to help. Because if you looked at the

Speaker3:

available market for our products and you look at how many

Speaker3:

we were serving, we were super busy, but but still not

Speaker3:

being able to serve everybody that needs it.

Speaker3:

And so I kind of felt an obligation to bring people on and

Speaker3:

do a little bit of scaling, if you will.

Speaker3:

And I felt that that was the best time was then when I had

Speaker3:

more of a financial backing with corporate, and I could

Speaker3:

kind of take the money and invest because I didn't need it

Speaker3:

to pay bills. And so I felt like that was the right time

Speaker3:

versus when I might feel like my future self would tell me.

Speaker3:

I'm a little more tight with finances because I don't have

Speaker3:

the corporate money coming in every single month.

Glenn Harper:

Did you have a at this point again, even though you've been

Glenn Harper:

doing this for seven years, how long has this been going on

Glenn Harper:

now? Since 12.

Jon Appino:

Contract. Yeah, 12.

Glenn Harper:

Years. Okay. So.

Glenn Harper:

But it's only in the last.

Glenn Harper:

You've been on your own with no corporate job for like the

Glenn Harper:

last four then.

Jon Appino:

Yes.

Glenn Harper:

Okay. So do you have any regrets or son of a moments that

Glenn Harper:

you wish you could do it over again, that you would have

Glenn Harper:

changed to get you where you are quicker?

Glenn Harper:

Or are you perfectly content with how the pace that you

Glenn Harper:

have developed your company and your career path and your

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurial journey? Are you are you good with that?

Glenn Harper:

Or you're like, Oh man, if I'd just known this person or

Glenn Harper:

that process or engage this person particular advisor, I

Glenn Harper:

could have got there quicker.

Glenn Harper:

Is there any advice for people listening that, you know,

Glenn Harper:

listen, if you could just see that one thing like, oh, pay

Glenn Harper:

attention to that blinking light.

Jon Appino:

Yeah. I think, you know, maybe the one thing that I would

Jon Appino:

change was, is the the way that you that you prioritize

Jon Appino:

initiatives. So I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, you

Jon Appino:

have a laundry list of ideas for the company.

Jon Appino:

You know, I've got I want to get this done and this done

Jon Appino:

and add this and, you know, and do this to the website or

Jon Appino:

this to the blog or this to the YouTube.

Jon Appino:

I mean, there's there's I mean, I have a list of, I think

Jon Appino:

still 32 ideas on ways that we can make the company better

Jon Appino:

or new products or help more people or, you know, add

Jon Appino:

something on or fill in the blank.

Jon Appino:

And, you know, as and I've slowly kind of ticked things off

Jon Appino:

that list, again, knowing that I'm not the type of person

Jon Appino:

to just jump in and hire a chief operating officer to start

Jon Appino:

knocking stuff off that list.

Jon Appino:

But I think I would have maybe started prioritizing that

Jon Appino:

list maybe a little bit different years ago.

Jon Appino:

But I don't know that I regret anything as far as timelines

Jon Appino:

go, you know, the way that the corporate job worked out and

Jon Appino:

when I hired my first person and how the company started

Jon Appino:

and how things kind of fell in place, I think that's that

Jon Appino:

as as as as purposeful, I think as it was when my wife and

Jon Appino:

I made those decisions, I think they were all the right

Jon Appino:

ones, you know, because now at 43 with with a nine year old

Jon Appino:

and a six, seven year old child, we feel like we're in very

Jon Appino:

good financial footing.

Jon Appino:

And I think because we we took our time and did it slow

Jon Appino:

again for me, I know I've got friends who quit a store

Jon Appino:

director job at at Target.

Jon Appino:

You know, we thought our friend was going to be the next

Jon Appino:

CEO of Target Corporation 15 years ago.

Jon Appino:

And he was running a store by himself with a $300 budget

Jon Appino:

and 400 employees at the age of 26.

Jon Appino:

And he quit that job, cashes out his 401.

Jon Appino:

K and starts a company, you know.

Jon Appino:

And so it's those things that you you I envy people who

Jon Appino:

think like that. Unfortunately, it's just not me.

Jon Appino:

So I think the pace that I did it was appropriate for my

Jon Appino:

particular risk tolerance and thresholds.

Glenn Harper:

Yeah, I think your, your, your perseverance, your you didn't

Glenn Harper:

want to rush into it.

Glenn Harper:

You had very much purpose doing what you needed to do.

Glenn Harper:

I like that again.

Glenn Harper:

A lot of entrepreneurs wanted all you know, yesterday.

Glenn Harper:

It's hard to have somebody that, you know is like, you

Glenn Harper:

know, I'm not in any hurry. I want to do it right and do

Glenn Harper:

it. Do it all I can.

Jon Appino:

Yeah. And again, I've, I've said many times you, I think my,

Jon Appino:

the, the, the tolerance that I have for risk has, has

Jon Appino:

impeded me in many ways from my investing strategy with

Jon Appino:

excess funds to the way that I've run the company.

Jon Appino:

You know, and I see what some of my friends have done and,

Jon Appino:

and I'm like, if I had their risk tolerance, my company

Jon Appino:

might be three times as big or four times as big.

Jon Appino:

I may have I may have three times or four times a

Jon Appino:

portfolio. I don't know.

Jon Appino:

Or maybe I would have crashed and burned.

Jon Appino:

But again, I, I can't force that.

Jon Appino:

I mean, I can't force that on, on, on, on myself.

Jon Appino:

And I don't want to try.

Jon Appino:

I wouldn't sleep at night.

Jon Appino:

And so for my individual risk tolerance, I think the pace

Jon Appino:

that I took was very was very reasonable, knowing that my

Jon Appino:

mother still thought I was crazy when she said, you're

Jon Appino:

going to quit your job, your job, you have insurance and

Jon Appino:

they give you all these wonderful things.

Jon Appino:

How would you ever quit a job?

Jon Appino:

You know, how are your kids going to have health insurance?

Jon Appino:

You know, so, you know, so for me in my family tree, if you

Jon Appino:

will, jumping out of the corporate plane, if you will, and

Jon Appino:

and starting something on your own is even though it was

Jon Appino:

well established, is not the typical in my gene pool.

Glenn Harper:

You know, that's a good note on that is that, you know,

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs, it's, you know, bigger isn't better, better

Glenn Harper:

is better. And you don't have to be big to be great.

Glenn Harper:

You don't have to be big to achieve whatever.

Glenn Harper:

It's your own individual thing that you really, really want

Glenn Harper:

to do. And if you had the right pace to do that, that

Glenn Harper:

that's it's that's admirable to do it.

Glenn Harper:

Do it that way.

Glenn Harper:

Did you have any you don't have a desire to you know, when

Glenn Harper:

you're an entrepreneur, you have this everybody has this

Glenn Harper:

special thing that their good their superpower that just

Glenn Harper:

makes them set aside in their industry or who they are,

Glenn Harper:

just their shtick that they have.

Glenn Harper:

You know, do you have you really evaluated what your

Glenn Harper:

superpower is?

Jon Appino:

I have. No know.

Jon Appino:

I mean, I'm I'm a natural salesman, you know?

Jon Appino:

And so I don't know if that's a superpower or if I'm just a

Jon Appino:

salesman. I love talking with people and I'm a nice guy,

Jon Appino:

you know? So I've never I've never tried to take advantage

Jon Appino:

of somebody or try to sell somebody something that they

Jon Appino:

don't need for for for a profit.

Jon Appino:

Know, we've always focused on we're we're a service

Jon Appino:

company, so we want to serve you.

Jon Appino:

And if there's I mean, I said from the beginning, I started

Jon Appino:

the company not to make money, but to help people.

Jon Appino:

And I figured if we helped enough people, we'd have plenty

Jon Appino:

of money. And so I think I don't know that I'm a

Jon Appino:

superpower, but I think I'm a natural sales person.

Jon Appino:

And at the same time, I'm not selling something for money.

Jon Appino:

I'm just selling information and advice.

Jon Appino:

And and so I don't know if you want to call that a sales or

Jon Appino:

a superpower, but I think just being a nice guy sometimes

Jon Appino:

is is a wonderful thing.

Jon Appino:

And maybe it's the Brooking, South Dakota roots that stick

Jon Appino:

out. And I think it comes through and I think I think

Jon Appino:

people appreciate and notice that and and they like working

Jon Appino:

with you as a as a result.

Glenn Harper:

How long ago did you get rid of all your flashy sales coats

Glenn Harper:

and sport jackets?

Glenn Harper:

I mean, you got to break all these stereotypes.

Jon Appino:

Yeah, it was nice.

Jon Appino:

I had really, really nice, you know, business suits and I

Jon Appino:

kept warm in case I need to go to a wedding ever.

Jon Appino:

And I want to wear a suit.

Jon Appino:

Right. And, and that's it.

Jon Appino:

So it was.

Jon Appino:

Yeah, it was. I got I got rid of them before I even left

Jon Appino:

corporate because the dress code has changed from business

Jon Appino:

every day to wear some slacks and a collared shirt if you

Jon Appino:

want to.

Glenn Harper:

Do you have did you have like when you're doing this,

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs usually have this this wall that they hit or

Glenn Harper:

this insurmountable climbing, you know, steep ascent that

Glenn Harper:

they just can't get over. There's this this fear that they

Glenn Harper:

have, like, oh, my God.

Glenn Harper:

I just I just can't break through that.

Glenn Harper:

Did you have any of that fear for you that prevented you

Glenn Harper:

from doing what you wanted to do?

Glenn Harper:

Or were you very it sounds like you were very methodical

Glenn Harper:

and just whittling that down so it wasn't a big deal.

Glenn Harper:

But was there this big thing that like, my God, everybody's

Glenn Harper:

against me, how do I succeed?

Glenn Harper:

Nobody's going to respect me.

Glenn Harper:

I mean, what was that your biggest fear that you had to

Glenn Harper:

overcome?

Jon Appino:

And this is going to sound silly, but it's a totally honest

Jon Appino:

answer. It was health care.

Jon Appino:

You know, I've got two young kids and we've got friends who

Jon Appino:

have gotten gotten cancer and gotten sick.

Jon Appino:

I've got a dad that has coronary disease.

Jon Appino:

I've seen people break bones.

Jon Appino:

I know how much health care costs in America.

Jon Appino:

And so one of it was one of the things was, what are we

Jon Appino:

going to do for insurance?

Jon Appino:

And do you just pay, you know, 30,000 or 35,000 a year for

Jon Appino:

a private plan?

Jon Appino:

You know, do you jump into a health scare?

Jon Appino:

Do you you know, do you jump into the to the Affordable

Jon Appino:

Care Act and the marketplace?

Jon Appino:

Do you I mean, and it was it sounds so silly, you know, and

Jon Appino:

and I had a lot of my friends who were even entrepreneurs

Jon Appino:

are like like, please tell me you're not keeping your

Jon Appino:

corporate job because of health insurance.

Jon Appino:

You know, and it was a hang up for both my wife and I.

Jon Appino:

And and so so that was it, you know, and we kind of worked

Jon Appino:

through it. You know, we we did have both both children

Jon Appino:

while we were in corporate.

Jon Appino:

So, you know, $100 for the birth of a child when my sister

Jon Appino:

Jon Appino:

And she works at a hospital, you know, so know.

Jon Appino:

But that was a big hang up for us and it was a lot of work

Jon Appino:

to kind of navigate that process to make both my wife and

Jon Appino:

me feel comfortable in the path that we were choosing for

Jon Appino:

our family. As far as making sure that that health care

Jon Appino:

didn't bankrupt, bankrupt us in the future.

Glenn Harper:

That managing risk gets the hardest part of an entrepreneur,

Glenn Harper:

because sometimes you have to go all in and risk it all,

Glenn Harper:

and sometimes you don't have to.

Glenn Harper:

You just got to be very purposeful with the way you do it.

Glenn Harper:

You know, a lot of entrepreneurs like to we and we like to

Glenn Harper:

call it you're either doing business is when you're doing

Glenn Harper:

your doing your task your thing that you do and and you do

Glenn Harper:

that very well and you have a small team around you, but

Glenn Harper:

you're basically doing all the things that are kind of

Glenn Harper:

relevant. And then at some point an entrepreneur likes

Glenn Harper:

doing that and there's nothing wrong with that.

Glenn Harper:

It's a great business model and sometimes I like to flip

Glenn Harper:

the switch where they actually building a business where

Glenn Harper:

they're going to bring in and just methodically hire people

Glenn Harper:

and all those categories to kind of just run it.

Glenn Harper:

And you, the entrepreneur, just kind of like being the

Glenn Harper:

business person where you're really not day to day

Glenn Harper:

operations. You want the big picture.

Glenn Harper:

Do you have an affinity to which side of that aisle you

Glenn Harper:

want to be at? Are you in the middle of there right now

Glenn Harper:

transitioning or where you at in that or do you even care?

Jon Appino:

You know. No, I think about all the time.

Jon Appino:

I've always said, you know, if you're working if you're

Jon Appino:

working in the business, you can't work on the business.

Jon Appino:

You know? And so I spent a lot of time working in the

Jon Appino:

business, and I couldn't focus on working on it because I

Jon Appino:

was so busy just producing, write just daily operational

Jon Appino:

things that somebody that the company does.

Jon Appino:

And so, yeah, as I've hired people, I've slowly kind of

Jon Appino:

shifted away from having other people do that.

Jon Appino:

I do love talking with physicians.

Jon Appino:

You know, I love having those kind of calls.

Jon Appino:

I love I love when you when you interact with somebody and

Jon Appino:

and a lot of physicians, they can be arrogant.

Jon Appino:

So the fact that they're reaching out to us to ask for help

Jon Appino:

because they're used to everyone goes to them.

Jon Appino:

Right. You have all the information.

Jon Appino:

I'm coming to you to pay you to give me information.

Jon Appino:

And so to have that role reversed when they're looking at

Jon Appino:

you and they're so appreciative.

Jon Appino:

Thank you so much for this.

Jon Appino:

You've helped my family.

Jon Appino:

You know, we'll get an email.

Jon Appino:

You know, I got a we have a we helped the physician that

Jon Appino:

haven't had a raise in four years get a $70,000 a year

Jon Appino:

raise and an extra week of vacation every year.

Jon Appino:

So over the next three years, $210,000 worth of extra

Jon Appino:

income for his family and three extra weeks of vacation

Jon Appino:

over those three years to enjoy time with his kids with no

Jon Appino:

extra production that he had to do, no extra hours he had

Jon Appino:

to put in because of the way that we rolled it out to his

Jon Appino:

employer. And so you get those messages from people and it

Jon Appino:

brings you joy, number one.

Jon Appino:

But you see how it impacts their family, number two.

Jon Appino:

And that's one of those things where I never want to get

Jon Appino:

away from that, even though I've got great people that can

Jon Appino:

do that now. I really enjoy those emails.

Jon Appino:

I really enjoy that feedback from the clients, and so I

Jon Appino:

don't want to get away from that.

Jon Appino:

But yeah, we've got lots of really important things that

Jon Appino:

we're trying to do to the business, which is why I'm

Jon Appino:

spending a lot of time now with, with, with, with people

Jon Appino:

that are helping build email funnels and build a YouTube

Jon Appino:

channel and, you know, and set up podcast interviews with,

Jon Appino:

with physicians that have their own podcasts and, you know,

Jon Appino:

and add additional products and make our system more

Jon Appino:

streamlined and reach more people through social media.

Jon Appino:

I do want to spend a lot of time doing that in the future

Jon Appino:

because I know that the company just has so much more that

Jon Appino:

it can do, not from a moneymaking perspective, even though

Jon Appino:

I know that will come. But there's just so many more people

Jon Appino:

that we can help that I feel almost an obligation to the

Jon Appino:

physicians that we don't get to talk to every year that to

Jon Appino:

to to show them that we're here so they can find us and we

Jon Appino:

can provide some advice to them.

Julie Smith:

So a theme I've kind of heard throughout, but you haven't

Julie Smith:

really solidified it is.

Julie Smith:

I think relationships have been the key to where you are

Julie Smith:

today. No matter if it's been in your business and

Julie Smith:

corporate, in and around that area, it seems like you've

Julie Smith:

really been able to solidify, grow all the relationships

Julie Smith:

that you've had to in order to get to where you are.

Jon Appino:

Mm hmm. Yeah, I would agree.

Glenn Harper:

It's a there's a trick question that we did about 10 minutes

Glenn Harper:

ago that you said you only had a list with 32 things on it.

Glenn Harper:

And that is a blatant lie.

Glenn Harper:

You know it and I know it.

Glenn Harper:

That list, if I'm not mistaken, is infinity.

Glenn Harper:

And the hard part as an entrepreneur is staying on point

Glenn Harper:

and methodically like you have done very successfully.

Glenn Harper:

And I suspect you're going to continue to do that is to

Glenn Harper:

your your head's got all this stuff in it because it is

Glenn Harper:

really you see the market, you just know there's unbridled

Glenn Harper:

optimism and opportunity everywhere and trying to just do

Glenn Harper:

one thing at a time and work on it.

Glenn Harper:

And I guess that dovetails back to the other question I had

Glenn Harper:

earlier is now that you kind of done a process to do this,

Glenn Harper:

one thing that you're doing on the next, things that are

Glenn Harper:

like the big picture items is that's something that you're

Glenn Harper:

going to delegate, empower others to do that, to help get

Glenn Harper:

those up to speed quicker, or are you going to still stay

Glenn Harper:

on the same methodical step?

Glenn Harper:

Have you figured that part out yet?

Jon Appino:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jon Appino:

Yeah. So I work with a like a small business.

Jon Appino:

I want to have big enough to have like a like a a chief

Jon Appino:

operating officer, if you will, that has everybody below

Jon Appino:

them and a marketing division and a and a tech team and

Jon Appino:

everything else. So there's a small team that I work with

Jon Appino:

that kind of has all those to work part time here and there

Jon Appino:

on projects. And as we bring them more projects that we

Jon Appino:

delegate more things to them, that's becoming a very

Jon Appino:

valuable relationship.

Jon Appino:

But at the same time, you know, I do I enjoy working on

Jon Appino:

these things. And so now the the challenge comes to how do

Jon Appino:

I trade my time, you know?

Jon Appino:

So there are so many things I want to do.

Jon Appino:

I've got young kids and I refuse to be one of those parents

Jon Appino:

who say, Oh, they grew up too fast.

Jon Appino:

And now all of a sudden, I mean, my kids are nine and

Jon Appino:

seven. And I'd like to I'd like to think that I've got nine

Jon Appino:

more years with my son before he takes off and goes to get

Jon Appino:

a job or goes to university or or starts a business.

Jon Appino:

But I realize that that 17 year old.

Jon Appino:

Sons are not going to want to hang out with me all summer

Jon Appino:

long. They're going to want to go hang out with their

Jon Appino:

friends. And so I maybe have a solid few years that, you

Jon Appino:

know, that he wants to hang out with me and he wants to go

Jon Appino:

on trips with me and and I get to see him quite a bit

Jon Appino:

before he's out running around with his friends, driving

Jon Appino:

cars or walking around or whatever.

Jon Appino:

So, so I'm trying to kind of balance now my, the, the level

Jon Appino:

of work that I want to do.

Jon Appino:

At the same time, the obligation that I feel to the company

Jon Appino:

and the people who I get to work with to grow it and add

Jon Appino:

products and that revenue and everything else.

Jon Appino:

So it's it's that internal conflict.

Jon Appino:

You know, I wish that I had 40 hour days.

Jon Appino:

Unfortunately, I don't.

Jon Appino:

And so so I'll kind of have to make do with balancing

Jon Appino:

everything out in the interim.

Glenn Harper:

I feel like if you went back to about ten years ago when you

Glenn Harper:

Glenn Harper:

morning, that's when it's going to get done.

Glenn Harper:

But no, you've got a little soft and that's okay, but

Glenn Harper:

you're figuring it out as you go.

Glenn Harper:

But no.

Jon Appino:

I don't know that that's that may be an accurate statement.

Jon Appino:

As far as as far as a little bit soft.

Jon Appino:

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Glenn Harper:

I'm kidding, of course.

Glenn Harper:

Well, is there a would you like to give a little plug for

Glenn Harper:

your company so we can put this on the podcast so people

Glenn Harper:

can find you if they need to?

Jon Appino:

Yeah. I mean, contract diagnostics, you know, you type it

Jon Appino:

into the Google machine and it pops up.

Jon Appino:

So it's contract diagnostics dot com.

Jon Appino:

And again, it's so easy what we do, we help physicians

Jon Appino:

understand their contracts and their compensation

Jon Appino:

structures. So if any physicians listen, you know, they can

Jon Appino:

call us. We have a free 15 minute consult.

Jon Appino:

They can call us up and or they can book a consult and we

Jon Appino:

can just talk with them for 15 minutes.

Jon Appino:

No charge. We have a couple of products from a compensation

Jon Appino:

analysis to a contract review on our website.

Jon Appino:

And if somebody knows a physician, they can send them over

Jon Appino:

to the site. We have free webinars and all kinds of free

Jon Appino:

stuff, free resources all over the site.

Jon Appino:

So it's one of those things that if they want to find us,

Jon Appino:

they can within a pretty good job of of putting ourselves

Jon Appino:

out there on the line.

Glenn Harper:

Is it fair to say that you've got to kick butt stereo system

Glenn Harper:

in your car because you're, you know, a guy?

Jon Appino:

I don't I have a I love I have a I've kind of over that now,

Jon Appino:

but I still am into customizing vehicles.

Jon Appino:

I have a Toyota forerunner that is an overland vehicle.

Jon Appino:

So it's got a tent and it's got all custom wheels and lift

Jon Appino:

kits and kitchens in the back and all that kind of stuff.

Jon Appino:

And I love getting up into the mountains and relaxing and

Jon Appino:

and kind of getting away from things from time to time.

Jon Appino:

But it definitely has a factory stereo, which for me is

Jon Appino:

just.

Glenn Harper:

Fine, more than adequate.

Glenn Harper:

But boy, back in the day you had to get the cool stuff.

Jon Appino:

Back in the day. Absolutely.

Glenn Harper:

What was the brand back in the day?

Glenn Harper:

That was the one that they couldn't get just out of

Glenn Harper:

curiosity. Kicker.

Glenn Harper:

Kicker, huh?

Jon Appino:

Yeah. There were subwoofers and we wanted kicker.

Jon Appino:

And I think Rockford Fosgate was another one.

Jon Appino:

And we want to Kenwood as far as like Dacs everything, the

Jon Appino:

whole market has changed so much because with with with new

Jon Appino:

cars and touch screens and apple CarPlay, I mean,

Jon Appino:

everything is different. Oh, different now as far as adding

Jon Appino:

secondary systems and everything else, I, I know the

Jon Appino:

market's changed quite a bit, but, but the stereo company

Jon Appino:

is still very successful.

Jon Appino:

They put stuff in boats and campers, they still do cars,

Jon Appino:

they do old retro cars, they do remote starts and older

Jon Appino:

vehicles. And it's a it's a pretty cool it's a pretty cool

Jon Appino:

company back and bringing still.

Glenn Harper:

That's fantastic. Well, John, I really appreciate you taking

Glenn Harper:

the time today to come on and hopefully this will help some

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurs out there realize that there's more than one

Glenn Harper:

way to get to through your journey to get your

Glenn Harper:

entrepreneurial success.

Glenn Harper:

This is Glen Harper, Julie Smith.