Episode Transcript
Glenn Harper:
Hello everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Empowering Entrepreneurs Podcast. I’m Glenn
Glenn Harper:
Harper. Julie Smith. What’s going on? You know, you don’t, you’re drinking water and I’m
Julie Smith:
back on the coffee. You went rogue on me. I was like, uh, we didn’t
Glenn Harper:
come here together. So you, uh, you stepping out and getting some coffee on the
Glenn Harper:
side, huh? Well, I think it’s homemade coffee. There you go. I got my great
Glenn Harper:
purified water, which is so helpful. Well, we’re looking
Glenn Harper:
forward to today’s show. We have got a, I believe, going to be a fabulous
Glenn Harper:
guest. I found so much good stuff on this guy. It’s going to be a
Glenn Harper:
hoot. Was there a Johnson rod and a Frame something? Framostat? No, we— that’s,
Glenn Harper:
that’s a side thing we were looking at, but we’re gonna jump right in.
Glenn Harper:
So I would like to introduce a fellow entrepreneur, Kurt Nelson,
Glenn Harper:
PhD, founder of the Lantern Group, co-founder of Behavior
Glenn Harper:
Gurus podcast, as well as dabbling in many other entrepreneurial
Glenn Harper:
endeavors. Kurt started off as a Midwestern guy who thought marketing and
Glenn Harper:
economics with a minor in English was a great degree to get a cushy
Glenn Harper:
government job. But no, he said, I wanna do more marketing
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and earned his MBA in marketing as the curse of the self-employed entrepreneur
Glenn Harper:
kicked in and he doubled down his marketing vision. Fast forward and
Glenn Harper:
Kurt has had, had his aha moment. I’m guessing he saw an
Glenn Harper:
opportunity, but we will delve into that and see what the defining moment was that
Glenn Harper:
made him go back to college to get a doctorate in psychology. I’m
Glenn Harper:
not sure if he wanted to be a savant to communicate with other people or
Glenn Harper:
just be able to see through all their BS. Regardless, he built his 2 companies
Glenn Harper:
to be the authority in the room When it comes to, I’m using quotes here,
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how to get inside the psychotic mind of an entrepreneur. If you’re lucky
Glenn Harper:
enough to get Kurt to do a deep dive into your headspace, you will come
Glenn Harper:
out as the best version of yourself. This includes quieting the noise, better communication, and
Glenn Harper:
helping your staff and clients achieve the results they’re looking for. He’s
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sort of the master plumber who unclogs your brain to make what the real you
Glenn Harper:
come out and play nice in the sandbox. In Kurt’s free time, he allegedly loves
Glenn Harper:
Civil War reenactments, Sudoku puzzles, and watching reruns of Miami Vice.
Glenn Harper:
Apparently mental health is a forefront as all of us are trying to navigate the
Glenn Harper:
strain on our nervous system today. If you’re struggling or know someone who is,
Glenn Harper:
this is the show for you. Sit back and enjoy as we ride, enjoy the
Glenn Harper:
ride as we pick Kurt’s brain, or he might do a Jedi mind trick and
Glenn Harper:
try to pick my brain. Uh, thanks Kurt for being on our show. I am
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: super excited to be here. Thanks for having me, guys. I, I can’t imagine what
Julie Smith:
you— now that— so I come into this blindly, right? So Glenn comes in very
Julie Smith:
educated and I’m the one who comes in blindly. It seems to work for us.
Julie Smith:
But now I’m like, oh man, what were you reading before we hit let’s
Julie Smith:
go live? I don’t
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know. I mean, I was, I was going, how did you find out all of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that stuff? And then where did the Civil War reenactment come from? Because I’m like
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: going, I’m— I just feel like you’re that guy. I’m totally kidding. I just
Glenn Harper:
made that up. You throw something in there to see if you’re paying attention,
Julie Smith:
really. Oh, that’s wonderful. Goodness. Well, I appreciate you being
Glenn Harper:
here, hey, Kurt. And it, uh, when I stalked you a little bit, and
Glenn Harper:
there’s some content out there that’s pretty controversial, but it says you grew up in
Glenn Harper:
Davenport, Iowa. Is that true? I, uh, my
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: high school years, uh, were in actually
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Bettendorf, which is right next door to Davenport. But yeah, one of the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Quad Cities. And then, uh, you know, spent another
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 6 years at the University of Iowa in Iowa City getting that
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: undergrad and, and my MBA there. So yeah, Iowa,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Iowa born and red. And it’s the best. You know, we, uh, it said
Glenn Harper:
there also that you spent a lot of time as a young lad at the
Glenn Harper:
Iowa 80 truck stop, the world’s largest truck stop, by the way,
Glenn Harper:
writing up psych profiles of truckers. Is this— Yeah. I knew it. See,
Glenn Harper:
see, some of these things are true. Yeah. I always gotta test ’em and see.
Glenn Harper:
Yeah. So, you know, you always love, uh, uh, talking to
Glenn Harper:
Midwesterners, uh, which we would include Columbus as part of that, ’cause
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we just think about things a little different. You know, we’re a little more polite,
Glenn Harper:
we’re genuine and all those types of things. We’re heart on our sleeve and You
Glenn Harper:
know, it’s funny when you grow up somewhere like that, you know, how
Glenn Harper:
do you end up where you end up today? Like it defies all
Glenn Harper:
logic, all reason. It’s never supposed to happen that way, right?
Glenn Harper:
Again, Davenport’s a great town. I’ve been there once. It’s really cool right on the
Glenn Harper:
river. But, you know, parents, like where’d you,
Glenn Harper:
what did they, were entrepreneurs, they worked for a living? No. So
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: this is to your point, everybody in my family,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: did not— they worked for somebody else. They
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: were never self-employed. The only one in my entire family who was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: self-employed was my brother-in-law, who ended up declaring
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: bankruptcy because his company went under. My role models
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in all of this were not anybody from my family in
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: doing this. Yet, if I look back on my
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: journey, as you said, there was always a little bit of
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that inkling from going and getting my MBA and doing other
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: things that I was like, yeah, this, this could be a path where
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I, I want to go. And I, I, it’s just, it ended up that way.
Glenn Harper:
The, the black sheep of the family, because nobody can relate and nobody can
Glenn Harper:
understand, but yet here you are nailing it. Um, you said you had
Glenn Harper:
some— what’d your parents do for a living? Um, my, my dad was an
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: engineer and my mom was a homemaker, so And that’s how it’s supposed to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: be. It seemed to work out real well. What’d your siblings do? You have any
Glenn Harper:
siblings? Yeah, I have 4 different
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: siblings and they range from— they’re all
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: older than me. I was the whoops baby. So I was— yeah, you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know, they were 4 and 7 years and then there was a big 7-year
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: gap and then me. So they, you know, like my oldest sister’s more
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: like an aunt almost to me. And, you know, everything from,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Schoolteacher to a nurse to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: an artist, engineer. So they ranged all
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: across the board too. But again, always working for somebody else.
Glenn Harper:
Were you, as a young lad, were you— did you have a real job or
Glenn Harper:
you just, you hustle to make some cash? No,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I worked at the local Whitey’s Ice Cream Parlor in
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Davenport and Bettendorf, Iowa. Serving up ice
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: cream and having that little white hat that all the ice
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: cream people wear and a little tie on Sundays that we had to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: put on. It’s only on Sundays. Yeah, yeah, only on Sundays for the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: little— and it was that little red kind of, I don’t know what they’re called,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the boleos or whatever that kind of— yeah, so
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it was wonderful training in customer and understanding
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: customers. So there you go. Did you play sports growing up? I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: did. I mean, I didn’t play, uh, after sophomore year.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I, I did not play in any organized sports, but yeah, I played
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: basketball and football, baseball, all those things as a
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: youngster growing up. Small school, you could probably play in all the sports.
Glenn Harper:
For today, there’s 12,000 students per kid, you can’t even play. Yeah,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I mean, we had 220 in my graduating class, so it wasn’t huge, but you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know, it wasn’t a small town of 50 either, so Yeah, it
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was nice. So, you know, back to this Whitey’s ice
Glenn Harper:
cream place, did you get to eat, get free ice cream or— Oh yeah. Perk?
Glenn Harper:
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, that was one of the perks.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And, you know, if you messed up, Whitey’s was famous for its
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: shakes. It actually sued Dairy Queen because they were the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: first ones to really put candy in shakes and make ’em really
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: thick. And so when, you know, Dairy Queen came out with the Blizzard, they
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: thought they stole it. They lost obviously. But, you know, we were
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: famous for shakes. shakes. And so the wonderful thing was if you made a mistake
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with a shake, you know, it had to go back in the fridge and you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: couldn’t resell it. So at the end of the shift, you know, somebody had to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: eat it. So yeah. Do they actually— and
Glenn Harper:
again, this is just funny because, um, obviously I love sweets, but it’s so
Glenn Harper:
hard today to find ice cream made with like milk cream.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Yeah, with, with real cream, not, not ice milk. Yeah,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: yeah. Or oils. Like, yeah. So did you guys— was that like real milk back
Glenn Harper:
then? Oh yeah, it was 18% milk fat.
Glenn Harper:
Mm-hmm. And the only reason I know that is I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: did that for a couple years in high school and then summers for the first
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: few years coming back from college. That was my summer job. And I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ended up one year, my last year, working in the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: manufacturing plant, which was basically 2 guys and me as their
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: little go-to guy that ran around. But we got to make all of the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ice cream and mix in the Oreos and do all the other fun
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: stuff as you’re making all those different pieces. Learned a lot from that too.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: That was, that was a really interesting experience. Yeah. You
Glenn Harper:
guys use Guernsey or Jersey, uh, milk? Do you know? I, that
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you’re getting way too deep. That’s the high milk fat, right? Those are the ones
Glenn Harper:
that have the— Oh, okay. Anyway, I just curious, ’cause I gotta finish that. So
Glenn Harper:
here you are, you’re working, you’re going to school, doing your thing, and you send
Glenn Harper:
a, um, head out to, uh, you’re, you’re in high school and you’re like, you
Glenn Harper:
know what? I wanna go to college. And you decide the University of Iowa. Which
Glenn Harper:
Iowa City’s not that far away. I mean, what is it, like 30 minutes?
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: It’s about 60 minutes. It’s about an hour. Okay. Yeah, yeah, 50 miles or
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so. So, and, uh, you know, I’m trying to figure
Glenn Harper:
out why you picked that school when you could have went to The Ohio State
Glenn Harper:
University, who has a way better football team, even though
Glenn Harper:
we respect Coach Frey and Coach Rantz. We, we love you guys over there,
Glenn Harper:
but I don’t know, how’d you pick that? Just because it was local? Yeah, you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know, it was the, the, the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: high school mind that you have as a, as an
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 18, 17, 18-year-old. Where are my friends going?
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I’m gonna go there. Mm-hmm. And that’s, that was the— and I, I roomed
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my first year with 2 of my best buddies in the dorm
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and, uh, partied way too much probably, but,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, I was able to survive and, and get through that. And yeah,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the rest is, you know, how it goes. So, and, and your degree, you know,
Glenn Harper:
it’s, it’s a— it’s so interesting when you bolted on all these things.
Glenn Harper:
It’s, it’s hard enough to get one major, but to get 2 majors and a
Glenn Harper:
minor, like, how did that even happen? The
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: minor was a, was a kind of fluke, but the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: majors, the, you know, that was, that was by design. I was looking
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: at both this economics and marketing. They were the two
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that really most interested me across the board. And actually,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: when I look at where I ended up, it kind of makes sense.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Economics is, again, why people behave
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: from the economic perspective that they do. Marketing is
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: understanding persuasion and why people are behaving because of the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: messages and different things that you’re doing. So again, it’s that understanding
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: human behavior. So those were the ones that really interested me. Much more so. I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: did not do nearly as well in my finance or accounting
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: or operations classes. Those were not my favorites.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: So that was by design. English was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: just— Iowa has what the— they have the Writers Workshop.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: They are known as one of the best writing schools
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in the country, in the world. And so I just was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: able to take a number of English courses, lit courses, writing
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: classes, doing a number of those things that were just fascinating.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And I realized, you know, my senior year, if I just took one more class,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I had enough, you know, credits for a minor. So— When you
Glenn Harper:
say writing, is this like writing or is it typing or— It’s typing.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I mean, so I took like a playwriting course. I took, you know, uh,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, essay writing, you know, uh, courses. So you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: had those different opportunities there and you had some really
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: fascinating You know, and great teachers in that. So it was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: wonderful. Were you really fascinated with behavior in college or
Julie Smith:
before college, or when did this, like,
Julie Smith:
I don’t know, close the loop of like, this is what I— this is my
Julie Smith:
passion, this is what I want to do? You know, I, I probably
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was. I don’t know if I realized it. And again, our brains
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: don’t necessarily— we, we don’t really fully understand how they work, but I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do remember, as I was getting my MBA, I took a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: consumer behavior course. The consumer
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: behavior course, we just looked at research papers
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: on understanding consumer behavior. That’s where
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I think it really— I noticed it. It’s like, this is
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: fascinating. Why does changing
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: a price from $4 down to $3.99
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: increase sales significantly, but that same penny difference,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: if I took it from $3.99 down to $3.98, makes no change
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in people buying my product. That doesn’t make—
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my economic side of me that was my undergrad is going, it’s a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: penny. The penny is the penny. That’s what we’re trying to save, right? But
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that’s not how that works. Why is that?
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Understanding why people behave the way they do,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that was the fascinating part for me. So that’s when it hit is in
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my, when I got my MBA. MBA. So what do you do after college? So
Julie Smith:
you finish and get these majors and minors and then what do you do?
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And then I was, uh, so after I went and I worked for about
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: a year, uh, after my undergrad in,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: uh, going up to Madison, uh, Wisconsin, you know, home of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: University of Wisconsin-Madison, another college town. I worked
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: for ITT Consumer Finance where I was going out
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and closing loans for $200, $500.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: They are a lender of last resort, as they called it. I actually got the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: pleasure of doing chases and calls, which basically is
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: going out and knocking on people’s doors, asking, collecting money from
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: them, and repoing the things that they had on their
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: collateral. Kurt the bounty hunter, I love it.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I realized very quickly that that was not not anything that I ever
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: wanted to do for any type of long
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: period at all. Then I went back and got my MBA. After
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my MBA, I think I was probably the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: lowest-paid MBA graduate from my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: class. I came up to Minnesota and I worked for a company called
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: BI Worldwide, who is—
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: at the time, I thought they were this consulting company that did performance
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: improvement, and they were to a certain degree, but basically they are an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: incentive company that builds
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: sales and employee incentive and recognition programs.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Everything was designed to try to get people to use their points that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: get them into the warehouse to get the toaster or the grill.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: They focus in on non-cash incentives, but that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: led me to actually getting more into behavior
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and understanding why are non-cash incentives
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: more— drive better behavior in some instances than
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: cash incentives, which again doesn’t make sense from the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: economics undergrad that I would have, but it’s human behavior.
Glenn Harper:
How’d you pick, you know, Madison and pick
Glenn Harper:
Minneapolis to go and do these things? Like, how did you go— that’s, you know,
Glenn Harper:
it’s not that far away, but it’s far away. That’s way different, right? Yeah,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I mean, I knew I wanted to get out of Iowa. I knew
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it was like, you know, after my, my MBA,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the, the 2 towns were Chicago and/or Minneapolis, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: enough to stay close enough to home but not, not go and,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and not stay in Iowa. So they were the 2
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: locations geographic that I was looking at. So you’re
Glenn Harper:
sitting around, you’re doing your thing, you’re like, you know what, I, I think I
Glenn Harper:
gotta get a psych degree. Like, how does that just— I mean, that’s— I
Julie Smith:
feel like he met his wife somewhere around then and decided to get a
Julie Smith:
psych degree. Okay, very, very good.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: That was very good. Perspective. Yeah,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: no, I got my— I ended up— so I worked for
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: BI for 5 years, then started off and formed the Lantern Group.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Had met my wife right before that. So actually,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you talked about the entrepreneurial journey, and I said my family didn’t have
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: any entrepreneurs in it. My wife’s family, however, was
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: filled with entrepreneurs. Wow. Her dad was an architect, had his own agency.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Her mom had an art studio that she
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ran. Her grandfather had his
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: own multitude of different businesses.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And so, she was very supportive in
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: me going off and doing my own thing.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And then it was a few years after that where I just
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: really— I like
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: education, I like learning. And so it was always one of my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: dreams just to get a PhD. I always thought it would be in business. And
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I realized that that’s not what interests me. I know
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the business side of things. I felt like I understood that well enough.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: What I really wanted to understand was why Why are we behaving the way we
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: did? So I got my PhD in IO, industrial
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: organizational psychology, understanding the psychology of business, basically.
Glenn Harper:
You know, it’s— I’m intrigued. I’m like, maybe I should go back and do this.
Glenn Harper:
No, you’ve had enough schooling. No, I’m kidding. You never can learn enough. But
Glenn Harper:
it’s funny. Here you are
Glenn Harper:
going, I might want to be an entrepreneur, but man, that
Glenn Harper:
nobody does that. I don’t know what to do. It’s a little off-putting.
Glenn Harper:
And then your wife’s like, oh, this is what we all do. Like, why wouldn’t
Glenn Harper:
you do that? And like, it’s like no-brainer to go do it. And
Glenn Harper:
it, it had to be like, what the hell is that? And then you’re like,
Glenn Harper:
well, I guess I’ll jump in, right? I mean, I guess that’s what you had
Glenn Harper:
to do, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, in retrospect, you look
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: back and I’m going, if I would not have had that support, I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: mean, would I still have done it? Maybe, probably. Would I have done it
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with as much gusto? The highs and lows of any
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: entrepreneur, you know how it goes. Would I have
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: lasted as long? Those are interesting questions.
Julie Smith:
Is your wife an entrepreneur? Well, she is now a real estate
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: agent. When we met, she wasn’t. We met at
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: BI Worldwide. She was an employee there.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: She said she’d never date anybody that she worked with, but luckily, I wasn’t an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: whole different department and doing different things. And so she made an exception.
Glenn Harper:
You were doing psychological mind tricks on her. She had no chance. I,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I, I tried to tell her that. Yes, she goes, you had no chance. Yeah,
Julie Smith:
I feel like it was the other way around. Yeah, it’s one of those. So,
Glenn Harper:
so when you decide to say, okay, I’ve got this doctor and I
Glenn Harper:
want to go on my own and do my thing, as you gravitated to this
Glenn Harper:
again, Your degrees and the things you do and the things that interest
Glenn Harper:
you, you could have picked anything anywhere to go
Glenn Harper:
and do this, but you decided to zero in on entrepreneurs,
Glenn Harper:
correct? Um, you know, I, I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: work with Fortune 500 companies. I work with all sorts of different
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: organizations. So it’s, you know, I, I do work with small
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: kind of, you know, family-owned individual entrepreneur, different pieces,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: but it’s across the board. So I’m I’m applying
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: all of the insights from behavioral science into
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: these different areas depending upon what that need is.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: The wonderful thing about the work that I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do is it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if it’s a
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Fortune 500 company or if it’s an
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: entrepreneurial company that has 5 people in it. you’re still
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: dealing with humans, whether that be your employees,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: your team, your customers. You are working with
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: people, and we have our foibles. We have
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the, you know, the way that we act that isn’t necessarily most
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: rational all the time. And the better you understand that, the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: better that you can be in that business, whether it’s huge or whether
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it’s small. So I have a question. So When you decided to go out on
Julie Smith:
your own and do this, though, at first, who did you work with? Like, how
Julie Smith:
did you— was there ever a point where, like, the, the
Julie Smith:
net was so wide? Not that it’s not widespread now, but it was so
Julie Smith:
widespread and like you could then narrow down on a niche,
Julie Smith:
kind of. Yeah. So it’s— I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: would not say that I was the most
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: adventuresome entrepreneur when I started, because I left
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: BI. This was before my PhD. So, but I was working in what
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was, I was leading a team that was doing a bunch of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: strategic planning, team development type work and doing
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: all that. And I had, you know, it was one of those things where it
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was, I could see the future at that company
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and it would be great. And, but it was a long path of a straight
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: road that I could see exactly where that would lead. And then this little entrepreneur
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: thing came. But when I left, like the very
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: next week, I went back and contracted for
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that same company on a project that I had sold while
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I was there that I would have delivered when I was an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: employee, but now I’m delivering as an outside
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: entrepreneur contractor. And for the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: first— I still do work with them, but for the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: first 5 years of that business, that was what kept me afloat
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: is they were— continuing to work with them. And, and,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: uh, it was really nice because they had a sales force of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 100+ you know AEs out there
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: selling stuff, and they knew me and they could sell my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: work and I would be able to do that. And it worked out
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: very, very nice from that perspective. So I’m going to take a step back because
Julie Smith:
you said something that made me think of another question. So in your entrepreneurial journey,
Julie Smith:
some people are working at corporate America and like something just hits them with a
Julie Smith:
2×4, whatever that is. Someone says something, there’s a meeting,
Julie Smith:
and you’re like, I have to go do this. Or was it like a
Julie Smith:
slow burn where, like you said, you could see the path and you’re like, I
Julie Smith:
don’t want that path. I need to take a hard pivot left. But like,
Julie Smith:
what was the— what was, what was your brain thinking during that time? Ooh,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my brain thinking. Um, so it was a slow burn.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I will tell you that it was a slow burn. I remember actually, you know,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: a lot of the work that we did was going out and, you know,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: facilitating leadership retreats and various different
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: types of sessions along that line. And I often had, you know, other
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: really bright, wonderful mentors and teachers that were
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: along the road or the ride with me and helping, you know, teach me the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ropes, but also, you know, working together on these things. And I remember
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: having a conversation with one of them after a couple
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: days, and this was when I was still working there and I was not getting
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: paid. Like I said, I was probably the lowest-paid MBA
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: graduate from the University of Iowa from the 1992 graduating thing, and I’m
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: just complaining. Kevin was his name, and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Kevin goes, Kurt, you’re getting paid to learn,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and you’re going to take this learning and you’re going to take it
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and do with it what you want. That was one of those moments where
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it shifted my mindset as opposed to thinking
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: about this as I’m doing all this work and I’m getting paid,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, very little relatively to what
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I thought I was worth. But now this was,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: oh, this is just— this is on-the-job training that I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: can take when I start my own thing. And so that was
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: That was a wonderful piece of advice that I got that kind of—
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so maybe that was something somebody said that kind of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: flipped that switch for me. But overall, it was a long
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: burn. Yeah, you’re like, I’m getting— they’re paying— you guys are paying me to learn
Glenn Harper:
this? This is great. I don’t actually do anything. I just got to learn. This
Glenn Harper:
is a great job. And the wonderful thing too is, yeah, I didn’t get
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: paid a lot, but man, we got to go to really nice places, you know?
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: So I got to experience the world and leadership
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: retreats for Fortune 1000 companies. Back at least
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in the ’90s, they didn’t spare any
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: dollars on that. They were going to really nice
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: resorts and really nice locations. I’ve got a question
Glenn Harper:
in my head. I’m trying to formulate it, so bear with me as I try
Glenn Harper:
to put it together. But every
Glenn Harper:
entrepreneur, every person you’re going to deal with, in your case, it’s a little
Glenn Harper:
bit different, but it’s still the same. For example, in my world,
Glenn Harper:
I’m dealing with a small entrepreneurial client
Glenn Harper:
where a relatively
Glenn Harper:
numerically or something very small thing in the scope
Glenn Harper:
of the world impacts that person, their family,
Glenn Harper:
their business exponentially. And if I
Glenn Harper:
work with somebody at a major company, We
Glenn Harper:
might make something that might make them, you
Glenn Harper:
know, whatever, gajillions of dollars, but in the scope of the world,
Glenn Harper:
it’s kind of insignificant. It really doesn’t have as much of an impact. It might
Glenn Harper:
help that person a little bit, but the impact outside of that is not
Glenn Harper:
extraordinary. So in your world, are you
Glenn Harper:
focusing on that individual to develop them, or are
Glenn Harper:
you focusing on how that individual’s gonna impact other individuals and
Glenn Harper:
that impact? And where do you see the biggest
Glenn Harper:
results? Is it mega corp over here, or is it
Glenn Harper:
helping Bob run his, you know, the, the
Glenn Harper:
ice cream shop? And he’s just, oh my God, I could do all these things.
Glenn Harper:
And I’m just now, this is the greatest thing ever. I think he would’ve been
Julie Smith:
a great guest on our show when we did Burn It
Julie Smith:
Down versus, I don’t know what the other thing was, but I think he would’ve
Julie Smith:
been a great third party on that one. Yes, for sure.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Um, I don’t know what that show was, but I’ll go back and I will
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: look at it. Burn It Down just sounds fun right there. It’s like, oh,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: bonfire, let’s go. Here we go. Um, not quite like that. I didn’t
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: think so. Um, my work,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the, the best that when I love my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: work is when I’m helping others
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: improve how they work with, with, with others.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: So it’s the exponential component. Um,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I’ll give an example. I was just, um, working
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with a, a small $2-3 billion
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: biotech company that was being purchased by a $70 billion,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, pharma company, Big Pharma. And, uh, I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was working with a leader inside of that, and they were very concerned
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: about, uh, when that happens, there’s what’s, you know, that the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: deal gets announced, but it doesn’t actually take place for an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: unknown amount of time. Could be 6 months, could be 10 months, could be a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: year and a half because they have to go through all these hurdles or
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: regulations and various different things. And this leader who led about a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 120-person division within that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: business unit was very concerned about how she
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was going to keep and retain her top leaders and the top talent within
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the group because of all the uncertainty, because of all the change that was going
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: on. And so I worked with her to
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: develop out these programs and her leadership team
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: to identify what are the key things that you
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: want to achieve at the end of this, whether it’s 6 months, 12 months,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: whatever time period. And then what are the things that we need to
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: develop from understanding how people react in
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: uncertain times, how people deal with change, how do I as a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: leader need to exude confidence but still understand and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: have that empathy in order to do that. There’s one-on-one
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: coaching. There’s development of workshops. There’s development of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: offsite programs that we’re doing. We did all of that.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: At the end of that, we achieved 9 out of the 10
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: objectives that we had set up at the beginning. They lost 1 person when they
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: thought they were going to lose 10% to 15% of their people.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: It’s that being able to take and work with that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: individual that then transposes out to the larger,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: bigger teams. Is this
Glenn Harper:
managing someone’s fear and
Glenn Harper:
uncertainty, or is this, hey, no matter what’s
Glenn Harper:
happening, this is how you were the best version of yourself to overcome
Glenn Harper:
these things? It’s both. I don’t think you can separate
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the two. Right. I think there, you can’t be the best
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: self if you are, you know, freaking out. Yeah.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Having all of this craziness where you’re ruminating over
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and over and over about all the, all the negative things that can be happening.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And so part of what I was able to do and
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: what we do and my team does when we go in is
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: we work with those leaders in understanding
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: what are those human ways of thinking,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: mindsets that they have, the biases that we have?
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And biases, I’m talking about behavioral biases, not necessarily, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the stereotypes and various different other things that plays in, but it’s
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: more about like how our brain processes information. And
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so, and then how that we respond to that. And so
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: understanding that part of how
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: people, your team operates, how your customers operate, you’re able to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: touch on, all right, as a leader, what do you need to do? Part
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: of that is making sure that you’re reducing that stress, that you’re
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: making sure that they’re not operating out of fear, but it
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: also is giving them this, like, how do you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: show up as your best self? How do you make sure
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that you’re not just putting the, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: hey, I’m going through the motions that I’m doing this, that there’s a
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: motivation for me to be and
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: really make this happen. And good leaders, if you can get, you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know, leaders to be able to do that, you have just,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, tripled your output of your team and everything else that goes along
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with it. So you gave us a really big example of something you do.
Julie Smith:
Could you give us an example of maybe when you worked with an entrepreneur, with
Julie Smith:
maybe a team, maybe no team, and kind of what that looks like? Because I
Julie Smith:
think our, our listeners can relate to that as well. Yeah.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: So I will take— there is a person
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that I work with that— so this is
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: truly the entrepreneur. He has a full-time job, but then he has a side
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: project. Yeah, him and him and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: another guy, and they do these coaching sessions and different pieces. And so
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: where he was struggling was in how
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do I manage my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: energy? My, you know, I get super excited about this, but I still
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: got to do my other job. And I just— He was on the verge of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: being burnt out. He was literally, you know, doing
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 70, 80, 90 hours a week of, of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: between the two. And, you know, his passion is one and his
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: other isn’t there. And then he’s feeling like he’s letting his family down. So
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: we did one-on-one coaching where we’re looking at
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: how do you think about this? What is your plan for
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: moving forward? Because we know that setting
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: goals and having plans and showing progress against those is one of the best
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ways actually to feel like you’re engaged and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: to, you know, reinvigorate yourself and in all of those
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: aspects. And we also did some simple
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: things from, hey, here are some breathing techniques on
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: how to reduce stress. Here are some
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ways of doing decision-making,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: decisions that take some of that stress out of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: how you do that, where, you know, a decision matrix and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: various different pieces along that line. So it was those that we
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: worked with, you know, every couple weeks where we met for 1
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: to 2 hours over the period of about 6
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: months. And at the end of that, you know, he had
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: actually— we worked on like how he put, you know, processes
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in place so he didn’t have to work as much. He had, you know,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: routines that he did that focused in on himself as
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: opposed to trying to, you know, do everything. They
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: outsourced some things as part of that goals of what they were doing.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And, you know, At the end, he was still— he was working, you know, sometimes
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it was still 50, 60 hours a week, but many times it wasn’t. And
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: his mental health and ability to kind of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: just make sure that he was being there for both
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: his full-time job and this part-time job as well as family
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was significantly improved. So I have another— I’m asking a lot of questions. I
Glenn Harper:
got a good one coming up. You gonna go on this? You gonna do it?
Julie Smith:
I got one. Okay. At what point when you started, though, did you know that
Julie Smith:
you needed to build a team? I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: started— so starting my company and when I needed to build
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the team. Yeah, I started off as a solo entrepreneur
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: for the first, oh gosh,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: 7 years. And then
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I realized this isn’t— I was making— I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: made better money doing that than I did once I started forming a team. Right.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And I, I would have continued doing that, but the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: work was— wasn’t as fun for me. It wasn’t—
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it was part of this was like being able to do this work with other
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: really bright, energetic, you know, driven people
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that share your values. And for me,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that part of the work is where I get the most
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: joy and fun. Yeah. Either with partnering with
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my clients, but also with the team that I have.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: It was right about then that I realized— I mean, I always
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: had brought in contractors. I needed to get a project
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: done and we needed to bring people in, and so I’d bring them in. The
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: problem was I’d enjoy doing it and then they’d be
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: gone. It’s like, but we could do this cool work over here if we just
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: were able to partner. And so that was when I decided,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: let’s bite the bullet. It added, as you
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: guys know, you take that on and all of a sudden it’s not
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: just providing for you and your family. It’s like you have other
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: responsibilities that you are responsible for this
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: person’s paycheck, for this person’s
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: livelihood. And that’s a big responsibility.
Glenn Harper:
Big burden. Yeah. So, you know, I, I
Glenn Harper:
suspect what makes you, makes you really good at what you do is, you know,
Glenn Harper:
we— I guess I’d equate this, um, and again, when I say shrink, I
Glenn Harper:
mean that in a positive because it’s just a cool term. I like it. Like,
Glenn Harper:
I’m a bean counter, right? So I’m, I’m— so don’t take offense to it. But
Glenn Harper:
it seems like in the medical profession, our profession, your profession, all these
Glenn Harper:
professions, there’s a, there’s a symptom
Glenn Harper:
And there’s a cause. And most people just treat the
Glenn Harper:
symptom. They don’t dig deep for the cause. How long does
Glenn Harper:
it take you? And I believe you go with the cause. How long does
Glenn Harper:
it take you when you see somebody that you see right through the facade and
Glenn Harper:
go, I know exactly what the issue is, what the underlying
Glenn Harper:
cause is? He read us in 0.2 seconds. I wish.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Yeah. I feel like you’d have to have a skill set.
Glenn Harper:
To recognize there’s probably, I don’t know, I’m gonna make up, there’s probably like 20
Glenn Harper:
pattern types and you’re like, okay, this person’s gonna be in this here and this
Glenn Harpr:
is probably the thing. And you can ask the probing questions and go, aha, it’s
Glenn Harper:
that. And then you can treat that not just up here, surface level. I, I
Glenn Harper:
assume you go deep and do this, right? Because that’s the training of being a
Glenn Harper:
psychologist, right? You get to see the deepness, right? Yeah, you get to see the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: deepness. And I will tell you that different, there are sometimes you can
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: walk in And within the first 5 minutes, you,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you understand what, what the real issue is. You
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: probably see this. Oh yeah. And some people, it’s just, it’s like, you go,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: oh my gosh, you, the way that you’re talking to your team is
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: just, you’re driving them, you know, to, to hate you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and to actually be counterproductive for what you’re trying to do.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Others, there’s a lot more, even, even when you get
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: in and you do those, those interviews where you’re asking
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: them all of these probing questions and doing it and you’re going, you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know— Lies. You’re doing everything right. At
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: least you’re telling me everything right. I’m trying to get past
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that. But there are sometimes where it’s just
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: readily apparent. Again, not to name names, but I was working with
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: a senior VP in a large company.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And they had the stated— one of the— they, they had,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, in, in large companies they have these pulse surveys, right? They come out
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and it’s like how the company is, how the employees are doing, all those,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: these different measures. Their, their group was one of the lowest in the
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: entire organization. Um, and part of that was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: feeling like they’re always on beck and call. They can’t ever relax and
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do these different things. And so we worked with this leader and like saying,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, we need to change that. That is part of this
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: major issue. And she goes, well, you know,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: one of the things we heard from those— we did interviews with the employees— is
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that when they go on vacation, they feel like they can’t turn off. They always
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: have to be checking their emails. They bring their computer on with themselves.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And she goes, well, we have a stated policy that that’s not the case. And
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so we go, well, that’s Let’s make sure we publicize that, which we did.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: We pushed that out there, talked about that. Lo and behold,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: she goes on vacation, goes over to Europe,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: calls in from the beach, calls an emergency
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: meeting for the entire team to talk about an announcement that was
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: made from corporate while she’s on the beach with her
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: family just demonstrating
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that, yes, this is what we say, but this is how we
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: actually operate. And when I brought that back up to her, like saying,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you have just taken all of that work that we did away, she goes,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: well, that’s for me at my level. Those people should understand that at
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: their level, they don’t have to do that. And I’m going, that’s not how it
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: operates. That’s not how it works. And so I had to work with her to
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: get her to understand that That is,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: they’re looking at your behavior as this is the expectation, this
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: is the norm for the way that we operate in
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: this business unit, in this team, etc. So,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: yeah. Awareness. It sounds like you bring a lot of self-awareness, team awareness,
Julie Smith:
all the awareness to people that maybe got their sunglasses on
Julie Smith:
the wrong side. Did you have to use shock therapy on her?
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Yeah, you know, sometimes I wish I could use shock therapy on some of my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: clients. No, I should have never said that. I didn’t— that was a joke. It’s
Glenn Harper:
always a joke. We love the jokes. Stereotypes run. So, you know, you—
Julie Smith:
Hold on. I think though, to that point— well, you’re gonna move on and I
Julie Smith:
want to just close the loop here. I think though, to your point, what
Julie Smith:
what you’re saying is, I think there’s these high-achieving
Julie Smith:
people, whether they’re women or men, and they hold themselves to a different
Julie Smith:
standard. And it’s really hard. I’m
Julie Smith:
guessing it’s harder for you to change their mental
Julie Smith:
state And how they operate than maybe to even
Julie Smith:
get their team on. So, their team’s hearing it, you’re doing everything you should,
Julie Smith:
but you’ve got to start with the leadership and you’ve gotta be able to change
Julie Smith:
their mental fortitude or however they’re thinking or whatever that is.
Julie Smith:
And I’m imagining that that’s gotta be the hardest thing
Julie Smith:
to do because it’s so ingrained, it’s such a learned behavior. How do you take
Julie Smith:
40, 50, 60 years of a learned behavior? And how do you
Julie Smith:
undo that? Shock therapy. I mean, asking for a friend. No, I’m just
Julie Smith:
kidding. But you, you brought up that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: self-awareness part. That
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: is by far the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: biggest challenge that we face when we’re dealing
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with leaders. And it’s exactly for what the reasons that you just said.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I have succeeded in my life. I have gotten to the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: position that I am in with all of the success that I’ve
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: had because I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: am acting in these ways. And
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the hard part is getting them to take a mirror
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and be— because our brains are really good
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: at showing us what we want to do. We
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: don’t— our brains are really good at keeping us from any type of self-reflection that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: causes us any disconcertment about who we are
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: as a person, self-identity theory. There’s a whole line of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: research we could go down and look at that, but we have an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: ideal of who we are and our brain will change
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and change the way that we interpret the same words
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that somebody else would go, yeah, they’re telling you this right in your face, and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: they’re going, oh no, they’re saying I’m fantastic. You didn’t get that from there?
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: It’s being able to get them to really
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: take a hard look in that mirror And for
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: some people, you know, it’s, it’s working them
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: through, like, is this really getting you
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: what you need? And really having them do that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: self-exploration. And for others, it’s literally just
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: trying to get some people that they have confidence in. And
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: part of that, my role is to build that confidence with them
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so that we can be the bearers of hard truths to them.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And sometimes it’s not me. Sometimes it is I bring in others within
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the organization and say, here’s
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: what you need to hear this, and this isn’t going to be fun. And, you
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: know, again, as a leader, we often
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: also get people who don’t push back against us,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: who aren’t telling us the unvarnished truth. And so
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that’s— it’s the biggest challenge that I face in the work that we
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do. I think it’s just so hard to do hard things. Right? Especially once it’s
Julie Smith:
a learned behavior, it’s just like, well, I’ve got here, and so I—
Julie Smith:
why would I change? Look at my body of work, right? Look at the body
Julie Smith:
of work and like, look at where I’m at. I’m fine, I’m fine. I’m good.
Julie Smith:
Yeah. We do a lot of work with, with sales incentives and working
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with people on, you know, motivating, you know, different pieces. That’s a lot of
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my— that was my PhD, uh, uh, dissertation was on
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: motivation. And, you know, one of the biggest issues that we face
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: is like, we’ll get that VP of sales who’s— who says, well, we need to
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: do this type of sales incentive because that’s how I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: worked and that was when I made the best. You’re going, A, that was you.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: B, that was 20 or 30 years ago. The world is
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: vastly different. The people that you are hiring are vastly different and your market has
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: totally shifted and changed so that no longer works.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Yet, they can’t see past it because, well, when I did it, it was
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: like the top earners got X. And so I was always striving to be the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: top, and we need to do that. And you’re going, you’re selling via team now.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: How does that work? You’re now— Yeah, yeah. It’s kind of like when your parents
Julie Smith:
told you they walked uphill both ways in the cold to school
Julie Smith:
barefoot. I actually did all the things. I actually did. You know, it’s, it’s, you
Glenn Harper:
know, Kurt, there’s, there’s a— talking with you, it’s, it’s kind
Glenn Harper:
of— I enjoy talking with you because you probably are
Glenn Harper:
very, very easy to
Glenn Harper:
talk to because your delivery and how you talk— I mean,
Glenn Harper:
if, if you, you don’t have psychologist written all over you, I don’t know what.
Glenn Harper:
You know, you know, Friedman from M*A*S*H or
Glenn Harper:
Talking Bob. Like, you just have all— I didn’t see it on his forehead when
Julie Smith:
he came on camera. Your delivery is so, like, calming,
Glenn Harper:
soothing. Like, I, I feel like people open up to you very well. Oh, thank
Julie Smith:
you. Okay. And, and you’re like, well, I’m here to help. And you just have
Glenn Harper:
a great delivery. Have you just always been that way, or did you just learn
Glenn Harper:
how to do that over the years? Well, thank you. First off, I took off
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: my tweed jacket with the patches on before we
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: got on here. I thought for sure that would help.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I think it’s part personality. It’s part
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: understanding
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that in order to get through to people,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you have to build a connection with them. And
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: the way to do that in most cases, and in some
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: cases you have to get in people’s faces. I, I, you, you said I
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: was from Davenport, and before that, you know, I’ve been all around the Midwest. And
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: so the Midwest ethos is not— We don’t do that. And so it’s really,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that’s the hard part for me. The easy part is building this connection and being
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: able to get in there and then talk as a friend. But sometimes you have
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: to be, you know, put that fist down. And that’s the harder part for me.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: That’s the part that I work on more so than the—
Julie Smith:
Can we talk about— I don’t want to be the bad cop, but if you’re
Glenn Harper:
gonna make me bring out the bad cop, I’ll do it. I got a can
Glenn Harper:
of whoop-ass over here. Who wants some? I’m always the bad cop. I don’t understand
Julie Smith:
the psychology behind that, but that’s okay. I have a question though.
Julie Smith:
That’s something that I’m interested in, but I think it’s important in
Julie Smith:
today’s world. Talk to me about EQ and where do you think
Julie Smith:
that falls sometimes in regards to leadership
Julie Smith:
and some of the work that you do directly? I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: think it is vital to
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: leadership. I, I think it’s actually becoming, it, it will be
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: even more important as the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: world adopts AI more and more where
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: IQ which used to be a really great
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: differentiator between, you know, I’m going to hire this person
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: versus this person because their IQ, they’re smarter, they’re able to do that.
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: That gets narrowed because we can just, you know, I can be
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: as bright as Einstein by, you know, having a little
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: AI bot going on next to me. The part
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: that isn’t is how we interact and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: understand and are empathetic with our
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: coworkers, with our peers, with our customers,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with all of these people. Have a hike. Have a
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: hike. In order to be able to do that. And again,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, when we’re looking at today’s world
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and look, we have, we’ve moved to many organizations
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: are hybrid or, you know, distant. And so they’re
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: remote. AI is reducing the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: need for us to actually interact with our
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: coworkers and peers. Where I used to, if I had a question
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and I’m like, I don’t understand this, I would go to my peers
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: or maybe I’d go to my boss or a mentor that I have inside an
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: organization and go, this is what I’m facing. How would
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you handle this? Now I can just type that in, and so I don’t
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: even have to interact with them in those types of situations. And
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: there’s also this whole component of, of, you know,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: trust. I get this like when
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I get an email that I know
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: has been written by AI,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I feel less connection with, with those
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: people. And that has been shown in research that we have less,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: less kind of feeling of friendship or trust or
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: even like respect for that person. And so EQ goes
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: into being able to address all of those
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: factors and be able to make that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: workplace hum better, to have that culture that is
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: going to drive people who want to go above and beyond and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: keep working for that. So I think I want to bring you back for part
Julie Smith:
2. I think we could go keep going. Just EQ, because I
Julie Smith:
love that stuff. Well, Julie’s got one big question. I have one last question, and
Julie Smith:
it’s the hardest question. I hope you studied. Whole hour.
Julie Smith:
Okay, what is your end game? Oh,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: um, that’s a, that’s a good question. So
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: people have all, you know, that’s like, are you gonna— I’m, I’m
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: closing in on 60, you know, and they’re going, are you gonna retire at 65?
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: And I’m like, oh no, I, I enjoy what I do, right? And various different
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: things. Now we have started a second consumer
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: side of the business, which is the behavior shift side, which is taking
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: all of these behavior change tools, the motivation engagement
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: tools, and putting them into tools that individuals or
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: entrepreneurs or anybody can use, things from modules and different
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: things. And so part of my goal is to grow that and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: then to sell that. That would be that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: part of it. But, you know, the podcast that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I do with my co-host Tim,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: you know, we talk with these fantastic researchers and
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Nobel laureates from around the globe, and it’s the funnest part of the
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: week, right, when you’re doing that. The work that I get to do with my
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: team and we’re working with clients is just fascinating
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: because those challenges are always new. So I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: wanna keep working at that. I wanna be able to do that
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: for a long time. A+ for your answer because you’re an
Julie Smith:
entrepreneur. There is no endgame. There never is. You found your passion in life, then
Julie Smith:
why would you ever stop? Exactly. I mean, it’s when you’re having
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: fun, and there’s too many people that I see,
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: I don’t have enough hobbies that would keep me occupied if I
Julie Smith:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: quit. Well, not only that, but there’s a big factor too is not
Glenn Harper:
one time I think very, for like a nanosecond, you mentioned something about money.
Glenn Harper:
You don’t do this for the money. You do it ’cause you love it and
Glenn Harper:
you’re impacting people. And that you kind of achieve that
Glenn Harper:
nirvana state where it’s bigger than you and you want to help more
Glenn Harper:
people and you’re kind of giving back. And that is exactly
Glenn Harper:
what happens to most entrepreneurs. You’re not driven by traditional things. You’re driven
Glenn Harper:
by this other thing. And that’s when you, that’s a different aha place. So, There
Glenn Harper:
you have it. Yeah. Well, I tell you, Kurt, appreciate you having me on the
Glenn Harper:
show. I can’t wait for our listeners to hear this one. And if they want
Glenn Harper:
to reach out and get ahold of you and see if they want to get,
Glenn Harper:
uh, mind warped with you, how would they do that? Uh, you can always,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: uh, reach out. I’m at Kurt W. Nelson on LinkedIn. I’m there.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: My email is kurt@lanterngroup.com. That’s Lantern Group,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: L-A-N-T-E-R-N-G-R-O-U-P.com.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Um, and I’m always happy to just have a conversation, whether it’s about
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: why people are behaving the way they do, or, oh my God, I have this,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: this employee who’s just driving me bonkers, what
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: can I do? You know, that’s the fun stuff. It’s like, it is, all right,
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: let’s, let’s pull this apart, let’s get this done. So what’s your podcast?
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Uh, Behavioral Grooves. Um, so actually there’s 2. Behavior
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Shift, uh, the Behavior Shift Show, that’s the one
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: with the side hustle and that where, you know, the consumer side of things, and
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: it brings in some of the Lessons that we have there. That’s more of like
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: me and my co-host Ben, who’s an employee.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: We just talk about some of the science and the tips and hints that you
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: need in order to be more effective on making decisions, setting goals, doing
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: those types of things. Behavioral Grooves is the one that I’ve been doing.
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: We have 560
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: researchers, and it’s talking with people much smarter than
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: me about behavioral science, about why people
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: behave the way they do. We’ve been lucky enough to have
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Nobel laureates. We’ve had some of the top researchers
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: and academics from around the world, plus people who are
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: applying these in real-world situations. That’s Behavioral
Glenn Harper:
Kurt Nelson, PhD: Grooves. Great. Yeah. Well, I can
Glenn Harper:
see why you’re successful. I tell you, it’s been a joy talking today, and I
Glenn Harper:
know our listeners are going to Love it. And this is the Empowering Entrepreneurs
Glenn Harper:
Podcast. I’m Glenn Harper. Julie Smith.
